[Thanos]

It's hard to see where Ratzinger can get off on saying that such behaviour was somehow 'normalized' in secular society when the evidence suggests that the only place this type of evil was ever normalized was within the hierarchy of the Catholic Church. And it goes back centuries too, not to the 1960's or '70's, but all the way to the foundation of the original monasteries during the Dark Ages. Denial and deflection of this type is nothing new to the Church though. Both Ratzinger and his immediate predecessors have long been infamous for condemning secularism for the rotten pathological behaviours that have long been far more prevalent among their own ranks than it ever has been among the general society-at-large.

I sincerely hope God is real. And I also sincerely hope God never forgives the leaders of this church for all it's innumerable crimes against humanity.

[BartSimpson]

Thanos Thanos:

And I also sincerely hope God never forgives...

Not me, brother.

[Thanos]

The sinner needs to stop sinning before forgiveness can happen. Or at least that's the way I've been told it's supposed to work.

[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Thanos Thanos:

And I also sincerely hope God never forgives...

Not me, brother.

So religiously speaking, you would like all those kiddy diddlers go to heaven, despite everything they did, because God is "kool like that"?
I was under the impression that the only one Catholics have to answer to eventually is God, from their point of view. If they are convinced God forgives them for everything they did (whether or not caught and tried under human law), why not do whatever the hell you please? So much for "God fearing"...

I'm with Thanos on this.

[BartSimpson]

Brenda Brenda:

So religiously speaking, you would like all those kiddy diddlers go to heaven, despite everything they did, because God is "kool like that"?
I was under the impression that the only one Catholics have to answer to eventually is God, from their point of view. If they are convinced God forgives them for everything they did (whether or not caught and tried under human law), why not do whatever the hell you please? So much for "God fearing"...

I'm with Thanos on this.

I don't recall that you believe in God anyway, so isn't the premise of salvation irrelevant for you?

In any case, I'll allow that some few of these vermin may actually regret their actions and they may be sincerely penitent. But that's between them and their savior and it's not up to me.

[2Cdo]

All I read into this thread is that those who have preconcieved ideas about the Catholic church either didn't read the article, or didn't understand the point the Pope was making, or didn't care because headline gave them the ammo to call down the Catholic church again.

Derby would be proud of you.

[BartSimpson]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

All I read into this thread is that those who have preconcieved ideas about the Catholic church either didn't read the article, or didn't understand the point the Pope was making, or didn't care because headline gave them the ammo to call down the Catholic church again.

Derby would be proud of you.

Concur.

[Gunnair]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Well, it seems, in the end, that both sides can read into the Pope's remarks to interpret them how they wish.

Then one side will be wrong.

Possibly.

It might be the side that dislikes the insinuations made in the Pope's speech that it is somehow society's fault that a handful of priests are boyfuckers that needed to be protected by the Church, or the side that seems to be an apologist for his statements and agrees that society thinks child porn is kind of normal now, schools flog homosexuality as the lifestyle of choice which has thereby created the positive social climate for a handful of boyfucking priests that ought to be protected by the Church.

Who knows.

Then again, maybe it's the nasty liberal media's fault for quoting him out of context.

Or maybe not.

[Gunnair]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

All I read into this thread is that those who have preconcieved ideas about the Catholic church either didn't read the article, or didn't understand the point the Pope was making, or didn't care because headline gave them the ammo to call down the Catholic church again.

Derby would be proud of you.

I'm anxiously awaiting your personal take here, or are you simply toeing the line?

[BartSimpson]

What I take away from this is that Benedict scolded society for normalizing aberrant behavior (and I agree with him on that point) and that he also scolded his own church for reflecting those societal norms. The church is supposed to be and should be above those norms.

To distill his thoughts; society should be reflective of the church and the church should not take its lead on values from society.

[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Brenda Brenda:

So religiously speaking, you would like all those kiddy diddlers go to heaven, despite everything they did, because God is "kool like that"?
I was under the impression that the only one Catholics have to answer to eventually is God, from their point of view. If they are convinced God forgives them for everything they did (whether or not caught and tried under human law), why not do whatever the hell you please? So much for "God fearing"...

I'm with Thanos on this.

I don't recall that you believe in God anyway, so isn't the premise of salvation irrelevant for you?

Fyi, in my case, it is an informed decision I made. Not an ignorant one.

$1:

In any case, I'll allow that some few of these vermin may actually regret their actions and they may be sincerely penitent. But that's between them and their savior and it's not up to me.

Since when do you have no opinion on an issue?
"Kill murderers, hang people who abort", but kiddy diddlers are ok? nice...

[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What I take away from this is that Benedict scolded society for normalizing aberrant behavior

But society doesn't see this as normal behaviour. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH does and because society doesn't, they have some explanation to do.

[Gunnair]

Brenda Brenda:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What I take away from this is that Benedict scolded society for normalizing aberrant behavior

But society doesn't see this as normal behaviour. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH does and because society doesn't, they have some explanation to do.

I don't think the Church does, actually. What senior members of the Church have done, for some inexplicable reason, is to actively hide and defend those in its priest ranks who are diddlers as opposed to going after them. The rank and file of the Church is disgusted and I suspect that it is one of the many reasons why the are leaving in North America.

Pope's out of touch.

[2Cdo]

Gunnair Gunnair:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

All I read into this thread is that those who have preconcieved ideas about the Catholic church either didn't read the article, or didn't understand the point the Pope was making, or didn't care because headline gave them the ammo to call down the Catholic church again.

Derby would be proud of you.

I'm anxiously awaiting your personal take here, or are you simply toeing the line?

My personal take is he is condemning society for what it has become and in a roundabout way he does acknowledge there is/was a problem with the church. He doesn't say it is "normal" but instead says society had "normalized the behaviour", and as Bart expressed in an earlier post society had become less shocked by 'deviant" behaviours in the late 60's early 70's. Society did start to acknowledge the inherent evil that child molestation is and started to react aggressively towards it, which we see today whenever we hear reports of authourity figures abusing children.

Definitely not toeing the line as I am pretty much a fallen catholic and haven't had much time for it for some years now. But that being said, I am not one condemns all catholics for the behaviour of some of it's leaders and members.

[2Cdo]

Brenda Brenda:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

What I take away from this is that Benedict scolded society for normalizing aberrant behavior

But society doesn't see this as normal behaviour. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH does and because society doesn't, they have some explanation to do.

Nice generalization.