[2Cdo]

Brenda Brenda:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Unsound Unsound:

Being a relative of Bart's there is a chance she might have been planning on trying to crash the plane into an islamic community centre.

Thanks for the laugh.

This is what happens when security personnel are told to be random and not to use any profiling in their job.

And there you hit the nail on the head. I don't have the idea they are trained at all... Not for profiling, not for anything... The stories of broken urinal bags, women who have to undress and show their breast prosthetics... I mean, come on...

When you pay minimum wage (or close to it) you get minimum effort. Until we get some sort of standardized training, with a decent wage, this is what travellers will have to put up with.

[andyt]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

When you pay minimum wage (or close to it) you get minimum effort. Until we get some sort of standardized training, with a decent wage, this is what travellers will have to put up with.

Wow, a right wing guy arguing for decent wages. Doesn't this pretty well apply to every endeavor? It's my understanding that that whole economy will collapse if we pay decent wages for jobs we can get done cheaper.

But in this case don't blame the workers, they're only following orders. You'd have to empower them a lot more to make decisions before you can blame them.

[raydan]

andyt andyt:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

When you pay minimum wage (or close to it) you get minimum effort. Until we get some sort of standardized training, with a decent wage, this is what travellers will have to put up with.

Wow, a right wing guy arguing for decent wages. Doesn't this pretty well apply to every endeavor? It's my understanding that that whole economy will collapse if we pay decent wages for jobs we can get done cheaper.

But in this case don't blame the workers, they're only following orders. You'd have to empower them a lot more to make decisions before you can blame them.

Maybe we can out-source this too...

Fly all passengers to India, have them scanned and patted down there, fly them back here, then fly them to their destination.

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

When you pay minimum wage (or close to it) you get minimum effort. Until we get some sort of standardized training, with a decent wage, this is what travellers will have to put up with.

Wow, a right wing guy arguing for decent wages. Doesn't this pretty well apply to every endeavor? It's my understanding that that whole economy will collapse if we pay decent wages for jobs we can get done cheaper.

But in this case don't blame the workers, they're only following orders. You'd have to empower them a lot more to make decisions before you can blame them.

Decent wages for someone employed as a line of security to keep my ass from being blown up on a plane, no problem. $40/hr for some useless union guy on an assembly line putting a hubcap in place, not a chance.

I don't blame the workers andy, I feel sorry for them. I blame political correctness that won't allow us to place emphasis on "likely" suspects but insists on patting down young kids and strip searching grandma.

[HaRdLy]

I gather none of you actually READ the story or you would of seen this part.

$1:

To hear the 15-year-old, Grade 10 student tell it, she was humiliated after randomly receiving a full body pat-down by a female security officer.

[Gunnair]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Choban Choban:

I agree with Caleb, the whole seurity fiasco these days is just window dressing, if it can't be found with scanners and metal detectors then it's highly unlikely to be found randomly patting down 15 year old girls

I myself refuse to fly, not because of all the "security hype" and "threats" but because I for one won't buy into the crap they tell us we "have" to put up with in the name of a false sence of security

Thanks for that, but no one is really talking about the elephant in the room. So I will.

Former Director of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff, was the one pushing the body scanners after the 'underwear bomber'. What they don't tell you, is he runs a security company now, and his major client manufacturers those same scanners. Even though it was said that the scans aren't harmful, there are no medical studies to back that up. As well, they said that the scans would not be saved, but yet, the very revealing scans appear online all the time. Now people are refusing the scans.

The TSA is intentionally making these pat downs 'extra special' so that people will be embarrassed into accepting the lesser of the two. Thereby increasing the acceptance of the scanners, and making more money for Chertoff and the Security industry.

As I've said before, Israel does not use scanners, does not do pat downs. It uses a tiered human approach, and they have not had any incidence of contraband on a flight in many decades, let alone a hijacking. But that doesn't put money in anyone's pocket, it just makes people safer.

AN interesting tid bit - the scanners detect hard edges but someone sneaking in a pancake of C4 for example - not caught.

http://www.diagnosticimaging.com/safety/content/article/113619/1730077

[Brenda]

But it will detect any detonating mechanism.

[DrCaleb]

Brenda Brenda:

But it will detect any detonating mechanism.

Even if the next meme we hear about is the 'Vagina Bomber'?

[Khar]

andyt andyt:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

When you pay minimum wage (or close to it) you get minimum effort. Until we get some sort of standardized training, with a decent wage, this is what travellers will have to put up with.

Wow, a right wing guy arguing for decent wages. Doesn't this pretty well apply to every endeavor? It's my understanding that that whole economy will collapse if we pay decent wages for jobs we can get done cheaper.

But in this case don't blame the workers, they're only following orders. You'd have to empower them a lot more to make decisions before you can blame them.

So... you don't see the difference between a firm working towards profitability, and a public service paid for by taxpayers in the United States and regulated by the government, or see potentially why someone who is "right wing" (however you would like to define that) may have differences of opinion in that regard?

You don't see how a serious change to the provided service in a very different context from even other services, let alone a series of other jobs, would not raise questions about other aspects of that job?

You don't feel that maybe you might just be oversimplifying a very complex field and discussion down to the potential bare minimum if you bring this up in every instance possible? That taking it to that minimum might just remove all the relevant points of interest which makes this situation differ from others?

In any case, because there's not been a political move from the voters for this, we still get highly uneducated people doing these jobs with little training. There is little point in paying them more if they don't have the relevant skills for the job in the first place. There's a big difference between correlation and causation. Skills and capabilities first. Being worth more as a result comes after getting that training. As 2Cdo said, this is not the fault of the workers, but the fault of the chains placed on them by political correctness and other oversight failures. If they can't do it, they can't get paid for it. Giving them more money won't magically fix problems they can't fix right now, giving them the skills and abilities should come first.

If the people who were doing the work for us were more seasoned professionals, sure, they deserve more. Someone in this thread mentioned those who have previous experience in law enforcement or even the military, and such people would definitely be an asset and if I were an American citizen I would be willing to pay higher taxes, or do without somewhere else, to cover the costs of increasing wages to attract that kind of skill -- but only if that skill can be put to good use. The questions being asked now is what can be done by these security officers. The point that they are paid minimum wage is more of a sign of what level of skill these people have than a plea that those same people are paid more without changing what they can actually do -- or at least, that's how it should be, in my opinion.

[Hyack]

HaRdLy HaRdLy:

I gather none of you actually READ the story or you would of seen this part.

$1:

To hear the 15-year-old, Grade 10 student tell it, she was humiliated after randomly receiving a full body pat-down by a female security officer.

Fact is hardly, the story as first posted has been edited. The first story had nothing in it about the sex of security officer doing the pat down.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Ya know, I've seen the argument put forward that ppl will use their kids to blow shit up, and there's plenty of evidence to prove it. But I gotta ask, how many 15 yr old white, suicide bomber girls have there been again?

What's really interesting is, racial profiling is all of a sudden a BIG NO-NO, yet it went on for YEARS at the Canada/US border before all this shit started.
When the shit hits the fan and the fan is on high, being PC only adds to the shit hitting the fan.

[angler57]

Unsound Unsound:

Look at any news report from the Middle East, lots of kids younger than 15 have been used as suicide bombers. As someone once said these people hate us more than they love their kids. That's why 15 year olds have to be searched. Now if we were allowed to do even a little bit of profiling it'd be angry looking 15 year old boys who already have full beards instead of 15 year old white girls.

This is a little bit stupid, but hardly new or world shaking. My 6 month old daughter was given a quick frisk when we flew from edmonton to ottawa last year... that was kida stupid, but also a little understandable.

The main thing that went wrong here was that the girl was not allowed to be searched in private.

Pickering? Sudbury?

Are they now a part of the Middle East?

[angler57]

A smart terrorist would make his explosives from local products.
Pick, maybe a subway, large power station or thousand of soft targets and bypass
aircraft.
So far we have had a bunch of Stupid attempts, since 9/11.
Thank God.

[CommanderSock]

Everyone gets a pat down. Why the boo-hoo now?

I've seen American WASP businessmen being patted down intensely in European airports. Why should the kid be treated any differently?

[DrCaleb]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

Everyone gets a pat down. Why the boo-hoo now?

I've seen American WASP businessmen being patted down intensely in European airports. Why should the kid be treated any differently?

You're assuming patting down either the businessmen or the girl made anyone safer. It only made people feel safer.