[desertdude]

Your argument would make sense if Emirates was trying to cut into existing routes offered by other airlines. There is no direct conection to Dubai and thats all that Emirates was asking. AC and Luft are just crying about the transist loss.

I have friends in Canada who have been traveling for years now to Dubai and everytime first few days are always filled with complaints about the long travel. They tried all possible combinations and all of them suck. Once it took almost 48 hours to reach hear due to variatious change overs and delays.

Guess which airline they will be traveling on next month ? In the end the consumer wants the better service and flight with least anout of hassle as long haul can be a big hassle in its self and couldn't give a rat ass about protectionism and transit passenger bussiness losses.

I think Lemmy summed it up quite well

[EyeBrock]

I'm sure if the UAE hadn't resorted to threats this would have been worked out with a bit of negotiation DD. Threatening us wasn't the way to go at all. Sealing the threats with back-room back-stabbing at the UN just really pissed us all off.

You can't do business this way with us, maybe it works with the Euro-weenies though eh?

[desertdude]

Never said anything about the aftermath mate. Plus maybe UAE saw it as back stabbing. Like mentioned before it let Canada use its airbase, air space and facilties for free for almost 10 years. How much do you think that it worth in finacial terms ?

I don't think they were asking too much, and maybe the Canadian back stabbing ticked them off, as you see what they did in this whole episode I have never seen them do with anyone over any issue ?

They have always been very welcoming and upfront with N.Americans and Europeans. The Visa waiver you can cry about, but remember UAE nationals were never allowed to visit Canada without a visa, but still Canadians could come here Visa free for as long as I can remember.

[bootlegga]

desertdude desertdude:

Your argument would make sense if Emirates was trying to cut into existing routes offered by other airlines. There is no direct conection to Dubai and thats all that Emirates was asking. AC and Luft are just crying about the transist loss.

I have friends in Canada who have been traveling for years now to Dubai and everytime first few days are always filled with complaints about the long travel. They tried all possible combinations and all of them suck. Once it took almost 48 hours to reach hear due to variatious change overs and delays.

Guess which airline they will be traveling on next month ? In the end the consumer wants the better service and flight with least anout of hassle as long haul can be a big hassle in its self and couldn't give a rat ass about protectionism and transit passenger bussiness losses.

I think Lemmy summed it up quite well

They should have tried negotiating instead of threatening.

I'm sorry for your friend's travel time, but that's life when you want to travel to somewhere on the other side of the planet. It takes time - at least until they perfect matter transporters like in Star Trek.

[desertdude]

Or you have direct flights

[DrCaleb]

$1:

Linkage diplomacy is based on the simple idea that if a country wants action on file A, they will need movement on file B. "The view among officials has always been that it's a dumb way to pursue policy, but that doesn't mean there weren't times when you did it," says Michael Hart, a professor at Carleton University's Norman Paterson School of International Affairs. "One of the ways to concentrate the mind of politicians in the country that you are complaining to is to show them your retaliation list."

Linkage worked for China back in September when it secured the release of a fishing trawler captain taken into custody by Japan after threatening to start a trade war over the issue. But if the UAE was looking for Canada to fold under a similarly styled threat, it had to be upset when another Gulf state, Qatar, quietly signed an aviation agreement with Canada on Nov. 11. The deal will allow Qatar Airways to fly three passenger flights and three cargo flights a week to and from Canada.

"The thing about linkage is, it's a good thing when it works for you and a bad thing when it doesn't," says James Lindsay, a director of studies with the Council on Foreign Relations. "You can counter the linkage by linking to something else or by playing another card."

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/managin ... 0006_10006

[EyeBrock]

desertdude desertdude:

Never said anything about the aftermath mate. Plus maybe UAE saw it as back stabbing. Like mentioned before it let Canada use its airbase, air space and facilties for free for almost 10 years. How much do you think that it worth in finacial terms ?

I don't think they were asking too much, and maybe the Canadian back stabbing ticked them off, as you see what they did in this whole episode I have never seen them do with anyone over any issue ?

They have always been very welcoming and upfront with N.Americans and Europeans. The Visa waiver you can cry about, but remember UAE nationals were never allowed to visit Canada without a visa, but still Canadians could come here Visa free for as long as I can remember.

You miss the very emotional point that anything to do with Afghanistan has become in Canada.

Seeing our boys in a funeral convoy is a heart-wrenching sight.

Harper is well aware that the mission has heightened passions. If he had bowed down to the very diplomatically clumsy UAE insistence on landing slots linked to Camp Mirage, his ass would have been toast in Parliament.

The UAE isn't sending it's sons into the crucible. Canada is. That's where the attitude comes from.

[bootlegga]

desertdude desertdude:

Or you have direct flights

That's misleading - as you make it sound like a direct flight and a non-stop flight are the same thing.

I don't think there is a passenger plane that has the range for such a flight, which usually means the plane stops once or twice and the passengers get off and sit in a lounge for a few hours until the plane is refueled and ready for takeoff once more. For example, I know that flights to Australia from Vancouver all land in Hawaii for a few hours and then take off again to finish the trip.

The biggest part of flying to the UAE is that it is on the other side of the globe and it takes a long time. If that's a problem, then your friends shouldn't have gotten jobs there. I never complained about flights to Asia - as long as 14 hours one way - when I worked there. I never once had a direct flight (at least one, sometimes two transfers) and it didn't ever stop me from going.

[desertdude]

Emotional point ? Well then your absolutely right I don't see any emotional point in this. Its was a bussiness deal with political arm twisting involved.

I believe your the first one I've heard talk about an emotional point, maybe it just you who feels this way or maybe a few others aswell ? I could understand it can be a nationalistic issue for some, but emotional ?

But anyways you can't totaly disregard that Canadian back stabing POV aswell.

BTW : There are UAE troops aswell in Afgahistan

[desertdude]

No its a non stop flight i.e no stops till Dubai and takes just under 15 hours and yes there are planes that can fly that distance.

Well you wouldn't know that flying Air Canada...Just kidding mate

[EyeBrock]

desertdude desertdude:

Emotional point ? Well then your absolutely right I don't see any emotional point in this. Its was a bussiness deal with political arm twisting involved.

I believe your the first one I've heard talk about an emotional point, maybe it just you who feels this way or maybe a few others aswell ? I could understand it can be a nationalistic issue for some, but emotional ?

But anyways you can't totaly disregard that Canadian back stabing POV aswell.

BTW : There are UAE troops aswell in Afgahistan

Yep, the fact that we have lost 152 Canadians in Afghanistan is an emotional issue to a lot of Canadians. How many UAE troops have been killed?

On the back-stabbing, how did we backstab you guys? We just said 'NO' once you guys did the airline route thing linked to Camp Mirage.

Picking a fight with Canada won't go unnoticed. We 'aint exactly a country that invades people or lacks in the appreciation of human rights. The UAE wanting to stab us in the back will get the UAE few real friends.

[desertdude]

Well to be realistic Canada really has no international clout and UAE is best buds with the US so I guess it decided it could loose one "friend" up north if it wasn't going to play ball.

Well saying NO could have been taken as a back stab or a snub. I guess they thought thats the least Canada could do after shilling out for the base for almost a decade also it biggest trading partner in the region ( More goes Canadas way than vice versa ) maybe they also thought maybe they could get something in return for all this.

Like said before political friendships are a tit for tat things. One just doesnt give all the time without getting anything in return.

[EyeBrock]

The Crown rests then DD. Our guys using your airfield before going into combat isn't a big deal to the UAE.

NATO see us with some international clout but as you seem to know sweet FA about Canada, NATO or the Afghan mission, maybe we should talk about Range Rovers?

[ShepherdsDog]

I fly out of Hong Kong all the time. I had to use Air Canada once. Not a choice I'll willingly make again....old, cranky stewardesses on an airbus. 90 % of the time we use Cathay Pacific because China Airlines has a shitty safety record and we usually spend a couple of days in Hong Kong before going elsewhere. You want to talk about a bitch for travel, try flying from Vancouver to Addis Ababa(Ethiopia).

[EyeBrock]

Ah Addis.......I like that city.