[Lemmy]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I moved here in 2002 from Manitoba and watched all my utility bills increase by 25-50% and usage was the same. Car and home owners insurance went up, groceries up, gas for vehicles up.

All this and had to put up with regular black/brown outs(including the big one in the summer of 03). I had more power outages in my first year here than I did in 9 YEARS in Winnipeg.

If it wasn't so close to family I would head back out west tommorrow. The Liberals under the lying sack of shit McGuinty have completely ruined Ontario.

Exaggerate much? Ontario isn't "ruined". Yeah, McGuinty's a fuck-up, but he's a hundred times less a fuck-up than Mike Harris was. Any "ruining" of Ontario was done before McGuinty took the reigns.

[2Cdo]

Lemmy Lemmy:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

I moved here in 2002 from Manitoba and watched all my utility bills increase by 25-50% and usage was the same. Car and home owners insurance went up, groceries up, gas for vehicles up.

All this and had to put up with regular black/brown outs(including the big one in the summer of 03). I had more power outages in my first year here than I did in 9 YEARS in Winnipeg.

If it wasn't so close to family I would head back out west tommorrow. The Liberals under the lying sack of shit McGuinty have completely ruined Ontario.

Exaggerate much? Ontario isn't "ruined". Yeah, McGuinty's a fuck-up, but he's a hundred times less a fuck-up than Mike Harris was. Any "ruining" of Ontario was done before McGuinty took the reigns.

Compared to the Ontario I grew up in, Ontario is ruined. I actually feel sorry for whoever wins the next election because I doubt Ontarios deficit is remotely close to what Mcguinty claims.

As for the inevitable "Blame Mike Harris" reply. Chretein and Martin cut transfer payments to the provinces and the left praises them for their "balancing" the budget. Harris cuts spending on programs that are no longer affordable and he is an evil fuck up.

[Yogi]

Sounds like there may really be an 'Alberta Advantage'! Compare your billing to this one. How does it compare?
This is the last billing I received. Note the usage scale on the left. Jan-Feb are the highest use months since in mid-winter we have the least amount of daylight, so more lights being used. To counter that a bit, all bulbs are CFL and I try to eliminate the 'vampire' appliances. I also make more use of the 7 watt 'night lights' around the house rather than turning on the overhead lights, unless I'm actually going to be doing something in that room.

[Lemmy]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Compared to the Ontario I grew up in, Ontario is ruined. I actually feel sorry for whoever wins the next election because I doubt Ontarios deficit is remotely close to what Mcguinty claims.

On that we agree.

2Cdo 2Cdo:

As for the inevitable "Blame Mike Harris" reply. Chretein and Martin cut transfer payments to the provinces and the left praises them for their "balancing" the budget. Harris cuts spending on programs that are no longer affordable and he is an evil fuck up.

Harris cut the two things that provincial governments are supposed to protect: health and education. Then he downloaded most provincial services onto the municipalities, driving housing prices and municipal taxes through the roof. That had nothing to do with federal transfers.

[andyt]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Harris cut the two things that provincial governments are supposed to protect: health and education. Then he downloaded most provincial services onto the municipalities, driving housing prices and municipal taxes through the roof. That had nothing to do with federal transfers.

I hate to agree with 2Cdo or defend Harris, but that's exactly what Martin did to him - cut federal health transfers to provinces. My understanding is that at one time the feds funded 50% of medicare and it's now down to 25%. I'd like to see the feds fund 100% of healthcare and have a true national coverage. If Quebec doesn't like it, they can fund their own program, as can Alberta if they want.

[Yogi]

andyt andyt:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Harris cut the two things that provincial governments are supposed to protect: health and education. Then he downloaded most provincial services onto the municipalities, driving housing prices and municipal taxes through the roof. That had nothing to do with federal transfers.

I hate to agree with 2Cdo or defend Harris, but that's exactly what Martin did to him - cut federal health transfers to provinces. My understanding is that at one time the feds funded 50% of medicare and it's now down to 25%. I'd like to see the feds fund 100% of healthcare and have a true national coverage. If Quebec doesn't like it, they can fund their own program, as DOES Alberta.

There. Fixed that for ya !


Sources of health funding
Of every dollar in health funding:

81 cents come from Alberta’s general revenues;
15 cents come from federal transfer payments;
4 cents come from lottery and other revenues.


http://www.health.alberta.ca/about/heal ... tions.html

[2Cdo]

andyt andyt:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Harris cut the two things that provincial governments are supposed to protect: health and education. Then he downloaded most provincial services onto the municipalities, driving housing prices and municipal taxes through the roof. That had nothing to do with federal transfers.

I hate to agree with 2Cdo or defend Harris, but that's exactly what Martin did to him - cut federal health transfers to provinces. My understanding is that at one time the feds funded 50% of medicare and it's now down to 25%. I'd like to see the feds fund 100% of healthcare and have a true national coverage. If Quebec doesn't like it, they can fund their own program, as can Alberta if they want.

I think hell just froze over! andy agrees with me and didn't even blame the Harper.

[andyt]

2Cdo 2Cdo:

andyt andyt:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Harris cut the two things that provincial governments are supposed to protect: health and education. Then he downloaded most provincial services onto the municipalities, driving housing prices and municipal taxes through the roof. That had nothing to do with federal transfers.

I hate to agree with 2Cdo or defend Harris, but that's exactly what Martin did to him - cut federal health transfers to provinces. My understanding is that at one time the feds funded 50% of medicare and it's now down to 25%. I'd like to see the feds fund 100% of healthcare and have a true national coverage. If Quebec doesn't like it, they can fund their own program, as can Alberta if they want.

I think hell just froze over! andy agrees with me and didn't even blame the Harper.

Well, don't get your panties too wet. I only agree with you that Martin cut back health transfers. He did it to all the provinces tho, and others didn't seem to resort to the type of slash and burn tactics that Harris did. And still leave a huge deficit.

[EyeBrock]

Other provinces 'aint a third of Canada's population.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Other provinces 'aint a third of Canada's population.

And that's relevant how?

[Khar]

I found it pretty easy to see why Eyebrock remarked as such. In the post previous to his, you said, "I'd like to see the feds fund 100% of healthcare and have a true national coverage. If Quebec doesn't like it, they can fund their own program, as can Alberta if they want." Hence you did introduce discussion of Federal health care systems into a thread about Ontario, and Eyebrock chose to respond in that context.

Ontario contains a bit more than a third of Canada's population. A response to the remark about it being a problem purely for Alberta and Quebec to have the federal government take control of health care is certainly not out of line, since other provinces would likely want to have a say about their own jurisdiction. It's ironic you are bringing it up again, I remember reading how the debate on who would handle health care was a hot topic for decades until the period between World Wars and was just thinking about that this morning.

Unless Eyebrock was talking about Ontario, Quebec and Alberta combined (in which case the other provinces would be a third of Canada's population), which I doubt, I don't see any problems perceiving how it is relevant to this discussion, personally!

[Dayseed]

I don't have a problem with green energy. What I DO have a problem with is trying desperately to be the "leader" in the new field. The race to get to be "green leader" is what's costing us.

If we could switch to solar power and it raised the average household 'lectric bill 5-8%, I doubt you'd hear anybody bitching for very long.

I'd vote for Hudak if I knew what he stood for. Fiscal conservatism is fine; I don't want a repeat of Harris and I don't want a religious idiot a la John Tory.

[ASLplease]

the cost of gravity is going to rise 46% in the next 5 years?

[EyeBrock]

andyt andyt:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Other provinces 'aint a third of Canada's population.

And that's relevant how?

Come on andy. I'm not advocating any Ontario supremacy here but you brought into the mix how other provinces handled health care and transfer payments in a much better way than Ontario.

Other provinces have very small populations in comparison to Ontario. They accept way less immigrants and don’t have the explosive population growth that Ontario has.

How PEI or NB or Sask deal with their issues isn’t going to provide a template to a province that has a dozen cities with populations higher than Saskatchewan.

Let’s have some common sense applied here. Ontario’s issues are very different from the rest of the country and it is a third of the country.

[andyt]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

andyt andyt:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Other provinces 'aint a third of Canada's population.

And that's relevant how?

Come on andy. I'm not advocating any Ontario supremacy here but you brought into the mix how other provinces handled health care and transfer payments in a much better way than Ontario.

Other provinces have very small populations in comparison to Ontario. They accept way less immigrants and don’t have the explosive population growth that Ontario has.

How PEI or NB or Sask deal with their issues isn’t going to provide a template to a province that has a dozen cities with populations higher than Saskatchewan.

Let’s have some common sense applied here. Ontario’s issues are very different from the rest of the country and it is a third of the country.

I think BC would beg to differ with you. I don't see how a bigger population is relevant - if anything it should offer savings by economies of scale. The smaller provinces also obviously received less health dollars from the feds.

Are you seriously saying Mike Harris was a good thing for Ontario?

Oh, and most people on this forum insist that immigrants are a good thing, that they add to the economy and tax base.