[fifeboy]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Stop listening to NDP carpenters, for one.

Why, in another thread you were defending the historicity of another carpenter

[Lemmy]

kenmore kenmore:

Riel was not a traitor. He should be recognized as a founding father. I think he should be on a denomination of our currency.

Nonesense. I posted this the last time CKA waded into revisionist Riel history back in February. I say it again:

"The problem here, as on many threads, is that people can find a lot of nonesense through Google searches, while serious academic journals are not available for free perusal on the internet. It's easy to find lots of references to Riel being a hero. But there isn't a serious academic historian alive who would support such nonesense. Can I prove that? Of course not, because I don't have a paid membership for online access to most History Journals. The shit that prevails on the internet, as easy citation material, tends to be revisionist pop-history with little academic worth.

The facts are that Riel was an American citizen at the time of his execution. He was a nut-job and the only defensible position for his actions is one of mental unfitness to stand trial. Macdonald knew this and he, personally, pitied Riel and regretted that he NEEDED to execute him. But the Americans openly sought to use the Metis and Riel to gobble up the fertile agricultural lands of the Red River Valley. They only stopped openly expressing their desires to annex the prairies when Riel returned to Saskatchewan around 1884, largely because the Yanks realized that they had thrown their support behind a lunatic instead of someone who could have actually furthered American interests in the region. There are hundreds of American newspaper articles from the 1860s and '70s openly supporting American annexation of this region. I'd prove this point by directing people to read "Louis Riel and the United States", a terrific journal article by J.M. Bumsted (American Review of Canadian Studies, Vol. 29, 1999), but of course, serious history isn't readily available to internet quote miners.

Macdonald executed Riel to show the Americans that Canada controlled the land north of the 49th and would not bow to manifest destiny in any way. The Canadian hero of this episode in history is Macdonald, not Riel. Riel's role in the story is that of a sad, mentally ill pawn of anti-Canadian interests. He's not a "Father of Confederation", he's the "Fredo Corleone of Confederation."

[Mustang1]

fifeboy fifeboy:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Stop listening to NDP carpenters, for one.

Why, in another thread you were defending the historicity of another carpenter

Being historical and knowing history obviously aren't the same thing.

[fifeboy]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

fifeboy fifeboy:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Stop listening to NDP carpenters, for one.

Why, in another thread you were defending the historicity of another carpenter

Being historical and knowing history obviously aren't the same thing.

Sorry about the chuckle, but I am not paying much attention to what is going on in CKA right now. On another forum I am watching in complete bewilderment a discussion about "the ANNIHILATION of the unindiginious Canadian Grey wolf in the lower 48." I am afraid that any time someone mentions education from now on I will remember this passage. It is entertaining.

$1:

Sorry Fred,
but our patience is ten years wore out.
And yes I want the ANNIHILATION of the unindiginious Canadian Grey wolf in the lower 48.
They were not here to begin with and when they were introduced the first thing they did was to kill off any remaining Timber wolves.
Not good Conservation practice and damn poor planning by the feds.
Like illigal Mexicans, if you don't have them in your back yard it's hard to understand the what all the fuss is about.
Fred seriously go to,

Saveelk.com and educate yourself.
PLEASE!!

Gotta love it

[gonavy47]

Meh, murdering nut-job. Let him decompose in peace. A hero he'll never be.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

I think he should be on a denomination of our currency

We already have a loon on one of our coins.

[kenmore]

Gunnair Gunnair:

kenmore kenmore:

Riel was not a traitor. He should be recognized as a founding father. I think he should be on a denomination of our currency.

Of course he was a traitor. He commited treason, murder and led a rebellion against the government of Canada - twice.

As has been pointed out, even by today's standards he was guilty of treason and murder, though he would have gotten ten years and be out in three.

Care to justify your position?

He was taking a stand against a corrupt government. We could use him to-day in Ottawa.

[Gunnair]

kenmore kenmore:

Gunnair Gunnair:

kenmore kenmore:

Riel was not a traitor. He should be recognized as a founding father. I think he should be on a denomination of our currency.

Of course he was a traitor. He commited treason, murder and led a rebellion against the government of Canada - twice.

As has been pointed out, even by today's standards he was guilty of treason and murder, though he would have gotten ten years and be out in three.

Care to justify your position?

He was taking a stand against a corrupt government. We could use him to-day in Ottawa.

So your idea in combating government corruption is to lead rebellions and murder officials?

[Lemmy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

So your idea in combating government corruption is to lead rebellions and murder officials?

...and to act as the pawn of a foreign government in its attempt to steal Canadian territory?

[Gunnair]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Gunnair Gunnair:

So your idea in combating government corruption is to lead rebellions and murder officials?

...and to act as the pawn of a foreign government in its attempt to steal Canadian territory?

Really? Kenny stands for that too?

[raydan]

Gunnair Gunnair:

So your idea in combating government corruption is to lead rebellions and murder officials?

We'd be "leading rebellions and murdering officials" every day.

[Bodah]

Gunnair Gunnair:

So your idea in combating government corruption is to lead rebellions and murder officials?

It worked for the FLQ.

Give it a couple of hundred years and I'm sure the revisionists will try to spin it the same way.

[romanP]

raydan raydan:

I can't remember what side of the coin I was taught when I went to school.
Strangely enough, if I remember correctly, he was presented as a hero.

Why remember how you were taught to think? Educate yourself and form your own opinions.

[romanP]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

kenmore kenmore:

Riel was not a traitor. He should be recognized as a founding father. I think he should be on a denomination of our currency.

Oh, you were serious. Thanks again for exposing your ignorance.

Oh...he meant that? Wow. Thankfully, calmer, more enlightened heads will prevail.

But not in this thread...

[romanP]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Macdonald executed Riel to show the Americans that Canada controlled the land north of the 49th and would not bow to manifest destiny in any way. The Canadian hero of this episode in history is Macdonald, not Riel. Riel's role in the story is that of a sad, mentally ill pawn of anti-Canadian interests. He's not a "Father of Confederation", he's the "Fredo Corleone of Confederation."

Then it sounds like neither one should be called a hero. We're calling Louis Riel a murderer because he had people killed, but not John A MacDonald even though he did the same? I guess it's only an injustice if you're not the one making the laws now. And we all know that no one has ever been a victim of an unjust law...