[EyeBrock]

Lemmy Lemmy:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Well, it goes back to the Balfour Declaration (1917), the League of Nations mandates and the UN mandates. All agreed that the Jews had a decent case for a Jewish homeland of various types. That's pretty recent stuff by ME standards.

I don't disagree that the Jews ought to be allowed their own homeland. I believe ANY group of like-minded people ought to be able to form their own country, provided they exist by the general rules of international convention. But the decision to carve that homeland out of Palestine was an ABSOLUTE error, in retrospect. They should have made Israel out of Arizona instead.

It is in a bad spot but they have as good links to it as anybody else in that region and lots of politicians 100 years ago thought they had a good claim too.

[Proculation]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I don't think the settlement thing is a good idea either.

It may not be a good idea to force settlement but it is their land anyway. And it has been the most documented nation to have their land there.

[FieryVulpine]

What about the Byzantines? Won't somebody please think about the Byzantines?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:

What about the Byzantines? Won't somebody please think about the Byzantines?

[Proculation]

They should take Turkey back

[EyeBrock]

Proculation Proculation:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I don't think the settlement thing is a good idea either.

It may not be a good idea to force settlement but it is their land anyway. And it has been the most documented nation to have their land there.

I think that Israel needs to take a less hard-line and stop the building for now.
It's counter productive and provides fodder for the Jew-haters.

As Shep said, the settlers are hard core types who have no interest in seeing things from a Palestinian point of view.

Taking the moral high road might be a nice change for the Israelis.

[Proculation]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Proculation Proculation:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I don't think the settlement thing is a good idea either.

It may not be a good idea to force settlement but it is their land anyway. And it has been the most documented nation to have their land there.

I think that Israel needs to take a less hard-line and stop the building for now.
It's counter productive and provides fodder for the Jew-haters.

As Shep said, the settlers are hard core types who have no interest in seeing things from a Palestinian point of view.

Taking the moral high road might be a nice change for the Israelis.

I totally agree. Putting gas in the fire is not the good way to make your point.

[martin14]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Taking the moral high road might be a nice change for the Israelis.

I havent seen where that has worked in the past. ( Gaza )

[EyeBrock]

martin14 martin14:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Taking the moral high road might be a nice change for the Israelis.

I havent seen where that has worked in the past. ( Gaza )

It's always worth another go Martin. What they are doing now is just galvanizing non-partisan opinion against them.

Even if they stop building you will still have all the Arab nations frothing at the mouth about wiping them off the map etc.

If the Jews give a little it would make them look less belligerent and more willing to work with the theocratic dictatorships that surround them.

[Proculation]

Stopping the settlements and behaving "quietly" for a while would be the best idea. Then we could clearly say: them and them, you see, they hate Jews. The problem is that if they loosen their guard, they might be attacked by the surrounding nations who want to destroy Israel.

[martin14]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

martin14 martin14:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Taking the moral high road might be a nice change for the Israelis.

I havent seen where that has worked in the past. ( Gaza )

It's always worth another go Martin. What they are doing now is just galvanizing non-partisan opinion against them.

Even if they stop building you will still have all the Arab nations frothing at the mouth about wiping them off the map etc.

If the Jews give a little it would make them look less belligerent and more willing to work with the theocratic dictatorships that surround them.

Is there any such thing as non-partisan opinion in that region anymore ?

I only mention it because after watching Israel offer up 95% of what
billionaire Arafat wanted, and that corrupt prick refused,
I think the Pali Authority doesnt really want peace.
Its too easy to blame everything on the Jews, rather than accepting
the real responsibility of governing the area.

The other governments are in the same boat.
If they suddenly turn around and say "yeah well, the Jews are there and
its ok", their own people will be so pissed it wont be funny.
They would put their own hold on power in jeopardy, and I think they just won't
do it under any circumstances.

[EyeBrock]

I agree partially Martin.

The states around Israel are 95% despotic and the Jews are an easy target for hatred. Everything can be blamed on the Jews.
These are countries with a controlled media and no democratic accountability. It really does have Orwellian parallels with the perpetual war of '1984'.

Having a good focal point of hatred distracts the masses from their domestic ills and the shite state that most Arab countries are in.

That said, if the Israelis don't change tack a bit they will lose the PR war. Perception is as powerful as reality. If they bend a bit it will go a long way.

[desertdude]

Proculation Proculation:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I don't think the settlement thing is a good idea either.

It may not be a good idea to force settlement but it is their land anyway. And it has been the most documented nation to have their land there.

Its there land ? Says who ? Or are you going to go for that historical land argument again ?

[desertdude]

martin14 martin14:

Is there any such thing as non-partisan opinion in that region anymore ?

I only mention it because after watching Israel offer up 95% of what
billionaire Arafat wanted, and that corrupt prick refused,
I think the Pali Authority doesnt really want peace.
Its too easy to blame everything on the Jews, rather than accepting
the real responsibility of governing the area.

The other governments are in the same boat.
If they suddenly turn around and say "yeah well, the Jews are there and
its ok", their own people will be so pissed it wont be funny.
They would put their own hold on power in jeopardy, and I think they just won't
do it under any circumstances.

Lets see you back that claim up ? They were heading in the right direction but Yitzhak was killed, by who ? An orthodox jew because of the the peace process. You might be right that some despots don't want peace but niether do te zionists within Israel

[Proculation]

desertdude desertdude:

Proculation Proculation:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I don't think the settlement thing is a good idea either.

It may not be a good idea to force settlement but it is their land anyway. And it has been the most documented nation to have their land there.

Its there land ? Says who ? Or are you going to go for that historical land argument again ?

,,,,

Does that need an answer ?

You hate Jews. Say it it's OK. But stop trying to be the defencer of an oppressed people. That's strategy doesn't work anymore.