[andyt]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

In a way Sandorski is right. Those who hate multiculturalism, don't hate it exclusively. They are also not fond of minorities or people other than themselves.

I don't see Nigerians or Chinese complaining about PET's decision to permit non white immigration, I don't want to sound like a tired old bag, but it is mostly (older) white folks complaining.

It's not about the color of the immigrants, it's about their culture. Europeans are closer in culture to Canadians and so assimilate easier. But no matter what culture you allow in, if you bring in too many at one time the just cluster together and have no incentive to assimilate. Now that Canada has moved away from the clutch of Mother England, this is true even of the British. If we allowed in hordes of Eye Brock's relatives, we wouldn't like it either, as they push is back toward becoming more British. I mean having to eat that shitty food again, alone is enough to want to prevent that. Or letting in huge number of Barts - my hair stands on end in horror.

We should allow suitable immigrants from all over the world, but in numbers small enough that the push is on them to learn the language and adapt to our customs, not them clusterfucking together in a few cities and trying to change us to their ways.

[Demian_164]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

In a way Sandorski is right. Those who hate multiculturalism, don't hate it exclusively. They are also not fond of minorities or people other than themselves.

I don't see Nigerians or Chinese complaining about PET's decision to permit non white immigration, I don't want to sound like a tired old bag, but it is mostly (older) white folks complaining.

because those old white folks were people who were once called "canadians" without any hyphen. they grew up and helped build a society that was swept out from underneath them and they watch change every year without any say in the matter. they fear for their children and grandchildren, they have something to lose.

[Andem]

Demian_164 Demian_164:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

In a way Sandorski is right. Those who hate multiculturalism, don't hate it exclusively. They are also not fond of minorities or people other than themselves.

I don't see Nigerians or Chinese complaining about PET's decision to permit non white immigration, I don't want to sound like a tired old bag, but it is mostly (older) white folks complaining.

because those old white folks were people who were once called "canadians" without any hyphen. they grew up and helped build a society that was swept out from underneath them and they watch change every year without any say in the matter. they fear for their children and grandchildren, they have something to lose.

Probably the most insightful post in this thread.

The idea of Canadian culture was officially abolished to be replaced by the new multicultural experiment, as it may. The remnants of a so-called "Canadian Culture" has now been hyphenated and it's practically unPC to even consider the notion of a "real" Canadian culture.

On the original topic re: German. So-called multiculturalism has never existed in Germany and it was never Germany's policy to set up such a programme. The guest worker programme brought a lot of change to this country and it hasn't been welcome change; funny that, that the guest worker programme wasn't exclusive to Turks (the Muslims in question). It was open to Southern European countries such as Italy, too.

I reckon the majority of Italians or Greeks either went back home or INTEGRATED. There is no "little Italy" here in Berlin unlike the dangerous Turkish areas of the city.

Multiculturalism does not work in Europe. I don't see it as a huge success in Canada, either.

[andyt]

Good to hear from a German on this topic - I hope you will post more on this.

[sandorski]

Demian_164 Demian_164:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

In a way Sandorski is right. Those who hate multiculturalism, don't hate it exclusively. They are also not fond of minorities or people other than themselves.

I don't see Nigerians or Chinese complaining about PET's decision to permit non white immigration, I don't want to sound like a tired old bag, but it is mostly (older) white folks complaining.

because those old white folks were people who were once called "canadians" without any hyphen. they grew up and helped build a society that was swept out from underneath them and they watch change every year without any say in the matter. they fear for their children and grandchildren, they have something to lose.

You're viewing the issue with Rose Coloured Revisionist History Glasses. Hyphenation has existed since before Canada even Officially existed. Perhaps you have heard of the French Canadians?

Also existed in the US around the same time.

[CommanderSock]

Demian_164 Demian_164:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

In a way Sandorski is right. Those who hate multiculturalism, don't hate it exclusively. They are also not fond of minorities or people other than themselves.

I don't see Nigerians or Chinese complaining about PET's decision to permit non white immigration, I don't want to sound like a tired old bag, but it is mostly (older) white folks complaining.

because those old white folks were people who were once called "canadians" without any hyphen. they grew up and helped build a society that was swept out from underneath them and they watch change every year without any say in the matter. they fear for their children and grandchildren, they have something to lose.

Bullshit!

I guess if you repeat it enough times, it becomes real history. Because all the Europeans who came here lived in harmony and sang Kumbayah. And they were all welcomed by other immigrants.


And of course, as so many Europeans believe, anyone who is not European can't help build or contribute to society, but only help to destroy it. Yup. That's how it works. Europeans build, non Europeans destroy.

/Sarcasm.

[CommanderSock]

Andem Andem:

Demian_164 Demian_164:

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

In a way Sandorski is right. Those who hate multiculturalism, don't hate it exclusively. They are also not fond of minorities or people other than themselves.

I don't see Nigerians or Chinese complaining about PET's decision to permit non white immigration, I don't want to sound like a tired old bag, but it is mostly (older) white folks complaining.

because those old white folks were people who were once called "canadians" without any hyphen. they grew up and helped build a society that was swept out from underneath them and they watch change every year without any say in the matter. they fear for their children and grandchildren, they have something to lose.

Probably the most insightful post in this thread.

The idea of Canadian culture was officially abolished to be replaced by the new multicultural experiment, as it may. The remnants of a so-called "Canadian Culture" has now been hyphenated and it's practically unPC to even consider the notion of a "real" Canadian culture.

On the original topic re: German. So-called multiculturalism has never existed in Germany and it was never Germany's policy to set up such a programme. The guest worker programme brought a lot of change to this country and it hasn't been welcome change; funny that, that the guest worker programme wasn't exclusive to Turks (the Muslims in question). It was open to Southern European countries such as Italy, too.

I reckon the majority of Italians or Greeks either went back home or INTEGRATED. There is no "little Italy" here in Berlin unlike the dangerous Turkish areas of the city.

Multiculturalism does not work in Europe. I don't see it as a huge success in Canada, either.

Because it's Germany. I've never seen a German people ready to integrate non European peoples, this is a historical fact.

Your Germanic mentality is quite evident even here. The Italians and Greeks integrated? Of course they did. They didn't face class barriers as the Turks did.

Europe is a funny old place like that. The last couple of decades Europeans bashed Americans for being racist, yet when the economy contracts a bit Europeans show us their true colours. Xenophobic as always. Always looking for someone else to blame.

You talk of multiculturalism yet it's multiethnicism you fear most. I've lived in France for a short time. There were quite a few people from Guadeloupe and Reunion Island, people who are French citizens, share French customs and traditions, and are primarily Catholic like the French, yet they are treated as second class citizens. No job prospects even with degrees, not allowed to enter certain venues (expensive shops, restaurants), and a segregated into the Suburbs of major cities along with the Moroccans and Algerian Muslims. Why? Because they don't look like Ethnic French Europeans. They are an ethnic mix of black, Indian, and European (Tri-racials). Bleh. Typical Europe.

You scream at them to integrate, but it's not integration you want. Integration is the last thing Europeans want. Not only that, but in addition, everywhere where you migrate, you segregregate yourself into ethnic European enclaves far worse than that any Indian, Chinese or Blacks have done. See the historical records.

[martin14]

CommanderSock CommanderSock:

I guess if you repeat it enough times, it becomes real history. Because all the Europeans who came here lived in harmony and sang Kumbayah. And they were all welcomed by other immigrants.

Sometimes Sock, you make good, well informed posts.

This wasnt one of them.

Irish

[Yogi]

Tman1 Tman1:

Multiculturalism is a poorly understood utopian concept.

It is not only unattainable, but also self-defeating for a country which tries to embrace or enforce it.

Multiculturalism literally aks the new immigrant not to assimilate in the host country. Its proponents say: keep your culture, keep your original identity, keep your language, keep everything that you were in the country you have left.

How on earth can we build a unified country (Canada comes to mind) if we have dozens of newcomer nationalities doing the above? This philosophy is the cause of ghettos, not because the host country segregates its new immigrants.

Owing zero loyalty to the adopting country and being more interested in the goings on "back home" than what happens here and now, these are recipes for an degradation of the country's own identity, unity, loyalty of its citizens and dedication to make this place the best.

Immigration demands from the newcomer to do his/her best to adjust to this country's way of life. You cannot live with 'one foot' here and the other foot "back home". Home is a place the new immigrant has chosen to leave, with whatever this implies.

By all means speak your old tongue inside your home and practice whatever religion you like. But in the public sphere, loyalty to the adoptive country and a feeling of kinship with its existing population are a must. Otherwise society will breed resentful, alien and isolated groups, who actually look out from their little bastions with hostility at the country which was kind enough to let them start a new life.

And being an immigrant by necessity expects the newcomer to start a new life; nothing less.

Very well stated! Kudos to you, Tman.

[kenmore]

I don't think that the idea of multiculturalism asks an immigrant to assimilate into society. Rather it requires integration which is a totally different concept. In Canada we guarantee the right to religious freedom and expression. That is a concept immigrants from Muslim countries find difficult to understand. They feel they should promote and recruit people to Islam and instead of being accepting of our laws, want to change them and enforce Sharia. The article on Yahoo to-day from Germany is most accurate and we in Canada are headed down a dangerous path if we continue to allow immigration from countries whose values and religious ideation are so very diverse from ours. This is just the beginning and as more countries in Europe advocate the expulsion of these immigrants we will see civil wars in countries that never experienced them before. If Québec were independent to-day, they would advocate the same.

[Zipperfish]

Newsbot Newsbot:

Title: Merkel says German multicultural society has failed
Category: World
Posted By: EyeBrock
Date: 2010-10-16 15:06:00

Well, Merkel, the German uni-cultural experiment didn't go too well either.

[BartSimpson]

sandorski sandorski:

His point is Wrong, dead wrong. Ghettos are Economic in nature, not Cultural.

Political correctness in sociology is dead. I see you didn't get the memo.

From the liberal New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/18/us/18poverty.html

$1:

“We’ve finally reached the stage where people aren’t afraid of being politically incorrect,” said Douglas S. Massey, a sociologist at Princeton who has argued that Moynihan was unfairly maligned.

The old debate has shaped the new. Last month Princeton and the Brookings Institution released a collection of papers on unmarried parents, a subject, it noted, that became off-limits after the Moynihan report. At the recent annual meeting of the American Sociological Association, attendees discussed the resurgence of scholarship on culture. And in Washington last spring, social scientists participated in a Congressional briefing on culture and poverty linked to a special issue of The Annals, the journal of the American Academy of Political and Social Science.

“Culture is back on the poverty research agenda,” the introduction declares, acknowledging that it should never have been removed.

[BartSimpson]

sandorski sandorski:

I prefer Brains to Balls.

That's a given due to your lack of the latter and dearth of the former.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

sandorski sandorski:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

This philosophy is the cause of ghettos

Excellent point. It stresses why people are different and promotes remaining different, rather than mixing and creating something new. Before the advent of multiculturalism as an offial policy, people became Canadians...non hyphenated Canadians for the most part. It was during this time that a true Canadian identity emerged in the world, something Canadians took pride in and others respected. We were seen as a beacon of hope and a sanctuary, not accused of being a haven for those who would destroy the way of life our antecedents fought and died for.

His point is Wrong, dead wrong. Ghettos are Economic in nature, not Cultural.

SUPER FAIL!!

[sandorski]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

sandorski sandorski:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

Excellent point. It stresses why people are different and promotes remaining different, rather than mixing and creating something new. Before the advent of multiculturalism as an offial policy, people became Canadians...non hyphenated Canadians for the most part. It was during this time that a true Canadian identity emerged in the world, something Canadians took pride in and others respected. We were seen as a beacon of hope and a sanctuary, not accused of being a haven for those who would destroy the way of life our antecedents fought and died for.

His point is Wrong, dead wrong. Ghettos are Economic in nature, not Cultural.

SUPER FAIL!!

Incorrect.