[kenmore]

Its not almost exclusively anything.. a large portion of its funding comes from donations and this is the trend across Canada.. there has to be this kind of funding because the government purse is getting thin.. And if anything he should be given cudos for going to a local hospital in Canada... he didn't run off to the states like alot of others.. and that includes many torys...

[andyt]

Nothing wrong with privately funded hospitals, clinics, long term care etc. We already use private doctors. We're (supposed to be) a single payer system, not socialized medicine. If (big if) private, for profit hospitals can do the job better or cheaper, more power to them. As long as the govt doesn't rely on them, because the private places will always try to cream off the most profitable cases, leave the rest to govt.

[Lemmy]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Then let me rephrase this then. Why would Chretien go to an almost exclusively privately funded hospital rather than a publicly funded hospital?

Because that's the hospital that this brain surgeon works at? If your child was burned, would you take him/her to the neighbourhood hospital or the Shiner's Hospital and their privately funded burn specialists? You go where the service is offered that you need. Where did Chretien get his bypass surgery a couple of years ago? Montreal Heart Institute at the University of Montreal. Where do they get their money? From public sources, yes, but also research grants, tuition, alumni, private fundraising, etc.

In Ontario, the most serious injuries/procedures are dealt with at teaching hospitals (Western Ontario, Sunnybrook and McMaster). The local, small-town hospitals hand out penicillin and put casts on broken bones. When someone (Chrietien or whomever) comes in the door with something as serious as a brain hematoma, they get moved to a more specialized facility. The more serious the treatment, the more likely it'll be done by a specialist working at a more specialized facility or teaching hospital. The more specialized, the more private funding. It's about the service, not the client.

[jeff744]

HaRdLy HaRdLy:

Thanos Thanos:

Did they find anything in there?

Cobwebs, a few marbles, and missing Sponsorship scandal money......

A How To Save Your Country From Spiraling Debt For Dummies book

[andyt]

jeff744 jeff744:

HaRdLy HaRdLy:

Thanos Thanos:

Did they find anything in there?

Cobwebs, a few marbles, and missing Sponsorship scandal money......

A How To Save Your Country From Spiraling Debt For Dummies book

Yeah, but that was really ghostwritten by Paul Martin.

[Freakinoldguy]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Then let me rephrase this then. Why would Chretien go to an almost exclusively privately funded hospital rather than a publicly funded hospital?

Because that's the hospital that this brain surgeon works at? If your child was burned, would you take him/her to the neighbourhood hospital or the Shiner's Hospital and their privately funded burn specialists? You go where the service is offered that you need. Where did Chretien get his bypass surgery a couple of years ago? Montreal Heart Institute at the University of Montreal. Where do they get their money? From public sources, yes, but also research grants, tuition, alumni, private fundraising, etc.

In Ontario, the most serious injuries/procedures are dealt with at teaching hospitals (Western Ontario, Sunnybrook and McMaster). The local, small-town hospitals hand out penicillin and put casts on broken bones. When someone (Chrietien or whomever) comes in the door with something as serious as a brain hematoma, they get moved to a more specialized facility. The more serious the treatment, the more likely it'll be done by a specialist working at a more specialized facility or teaching hospital. The more specialized, the more private funding. It's about the service, not the client.

Fair enough. I asked the question and I got a valid answer. Even Kenmore is right about alot of politicians fucking off to the states to get private health care. So despite what we may think of him at least Chretien stayed in Canada.

So now that I have an answer to that question maybe somebody would like to weigh in on why if socialized medicine is the cats ass, hospitals have to hold lotteries and count on donations to operate.

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

So now that I have an answer to that question maybe somebody would like to weigh in on why if socialized medicine is the cats ass, hospitals have to hold lotteries and count on donations to operate.

I dunno, You should probably ask somebody who lives in a country with socialized medicine. In Canada we have a single payer system, but not socialized medicine. Hospitals have to rely on lotteries, etc, exactly because they are not socialized, ie not fully funded by the govt. Why are schools doing the same thing? Fully private schools don't need to do that, but it would certainly leave an lot of kids out in the educational cold.

But what's better, hospitals holding lotteries or people going bankrupt and/or committing suicide because the can't afford the health care they need?

[Brenda]

I, coming from a pretty socialized country (you think Canada is socialized, but it's not...), have never ever before heard of donations necessary for a hospital to stay afloat, or of donations because your child is sick, so you can stay with it, or for whatever reason people start up a donation campaign because someone is in the hospital.
That is all covered.

[Brenda]

I never had to buy school supplies before, like notebooks, pencils and erasers. That is all paid for by taxes. Sports, funded. Yes, taxes are a bit higher (not much tho), but you get A LOT back.
I noticed life in Canada is more expensive than in The Netherlands. Wages are lower too.

(BTW, not whining here, just stating my observation. It is what it is)

[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

So now that I have an answer to that question maybe somebody would like to weigh in on why if socialized medicine is the cats ass, hospitals have to hold lotteries and count on donations to operate.

I dunno, You should probably ask somebody who lives in a country with socialized medicine. In Canada we have a single payer system, but not socialized medicine. Hospitals have to rely on lotteries, etc, exactly because they are not socialized, ie not fully funded by the govt. Why are schools doing the same thing? Fully private schools don't need to do that, but it would certainly leave an lot of kids out in the educational cold.

But what's better, hospitals holding lotteries or people going bankrupt and/or committing suicide because the can't afford the health care they need?

Actually what would be better is for the Federal Government to restore funding to the provinces for health care, more accountability in the operation of the health care system and less worry about getting reelected by balancing the budget.

I will have to diagree with you about the single payer system. Yes, up to a point our health care is single payer, but, by definition, as soon as a Government controls it, the system becomes socialized.

So the reality is that we're actually using two systems for our health care and neither to very good effect, which leads to horribly underfunded hospitals having to beg borrow and steal to keep operating which, under either system is wrong.

[kenmore]

Well Brenda, back in the day before the influx of immigrants (not you dear) who come here to take and not give.... we had free hospitals and schools... we even got free books in cègep...now with so many taking and on the friggen dole.. we have had to resort to begging for funds.

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Actually what would be better is for the Federal Government to restore funding to the provinces for health care, more accountability in the operation of the health care system and less worry about getting reelected by balancing the budget.

I will have to diagree with you about the single payer system. Yes, up to a point our health care is single payer, but, by definition, as soon as a Government controls it, the system becomes socialized.

So the reality is that we're actually using two systems for our health care and neither to very good effect, which leads to horribly underfunded hospitals having to beg borrow and steal to keep operating which, under either system is wrong.

I'm not sure what diff it makes if the Feds or provinces fund Medicare. I'd like to see the feds fund it 100%, but then administer it 100%, saving in administrative costs, cheaper drug buys, squeeze docs salaries a bit more and provide the same care for every Canadian. But as long as provinces administer it, let them pay for it too.

I would actually go for socialized medicine - make docs govt employees and make the system totally govt owned. Then take a look at European countries, especially France, that seem to use a public/private system to very good effect - much better health outcomes for less money. I would also like to see some of Palin's death panels up here - the terminally ill or very old we should not be spending fortunes on to keep alive. Same with the very prematurely born. Very poor chances of survival, very expensive to keep alive. Keep health care from people who actually have a good chance of benefiting from it.

[Brenda]

kenmore kenmore:

Well Brenda, back in the day before the influx of immigrants (not you dear) who come here to take and not give.... we had free hospitals and schools... we even got free books in cègep...now with so many taking and on the friggen dole.. we have had to resort to begging for funds.

I don't think you can blame it on immigration.
The Netherlands has it's fair share of bums too, but to blame it on "those foreign assholes" is imho not right.

[kenmore]

Actually McGuinty's idea of the provinces collectively buying drugs is a good idea..it would bring down costs considerably I think... but I agree andyt, the feds could perhaps do a better job of it.. as long as they didn't put a twit like Rona Ambrose in charge of it.

[EyeBrock]

I'm glad he's recovering. I'm no fan of the old git but he is an iconic Canadian and was a very good leader for the Federal Libs. Bit of a character. I loved him grabbing the guy at the demo.....