[EyeBrock]

Yea, but the Indonesian navy has Indonesian sailors.

We have Canadian fish-heads as our secret weapon....

[bootlegga]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

-Wario- -Wario-:

I think that we should buy the super hornet... F-18E

I've looked at that and it would plug a gap but we would be buying a last generation airframe with new systems. "Fur coat and no knickers.." we say in Manchester.

The RAAF have taken a different step. they ordered F18E's as an iterim aircraft until they get the F35's.

Now they have a very similar size defence budget but seem to get way more bang for their buck. Where is the CF going wrong?

The Aussies have also sussed that the F18E/F's are 'good enough' for present ops but won't have a 30 year shelf life like the F35.

The RAAF will most likely shelve or sell its F18E/F's once the three squadrons of F35's are operational, according to the official RAAF website.

I'd argue that Australia has several ready made threats nearby that Canada doesn't (Indonesia & China for example). That impetus keeps Aussies willing to spend money on defence whereas Canadians don't have that.

[-Wario-]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

-Wario- -Wario-:

I think that we should buy the super hornet... F-18E

I've looked at that and it would plug a gap but we would be buying a last generation airframe with new systems. "Fur coat and no knickers.." we say in Manchester.

The RAAF have taken a different step. they ordered F18E's as an iterim aircraft until they get the F35's.

Now they have a very similar size defence budget but seem to get way more bang for their buck. Where is the CF going wrong?

The Aussies have also sussed that the F18E/F's are 'good enough' for present ops but won't have a 30 year shelf life like the F35.

The RAAF will most likely shelve or sell its F18E/F's once the three squadrons of F35's are operational, according to the official RAAF website.

I don't understand how they compare the f-35 to the F-18E/F. The superhornet is much larger than the old hornet.

To use the Aussies -> they purchased a much larger Fighter to replaced their old F-18. To later buy smaller bird than the present f-18. Not making any sense to me.

For Canada, I still prefer the good old two engine approach to our cold winters.

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

I'd argue that Australia has several ready made threats nearby that Canada doesn't (Indonesia & China for example). That impetus keeps Aussies willing to spend money on defence whereas Canadians don't have that.

Canada has China as a threat these days.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/g20/2010 ... 84401.html

[bootlegga]

That's not nearly the immediate threat that an unstable nation of 200 million Muslims living 500 KMs north of Australia presents.

China may be a future threat, it may not, only time will tell.

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

That's not nearly the immediate threat that an unstable nation of 200 million Muslims living 500 KMs north of Australia presents.

China may be a future threat, it may not, only time will tell.

Indonesia is domestically a very stable country. Australia, however, is keenly aware of its territory being coveted by Indonesia, China, and India.

I imagine as China (and Russia and everyone else) ratchets up their interest and presence in the Arctic then Canadians will start to pay attention to what they currently take for granted.

[EyeBrock]

-Wario- -Wario-:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

-Wario- -Wario-:

I think that we should buy the super hornet... F-18E

I've looked at that and it would plug a gap but we would be buying a last generation airframe with new systems. "Fur coat and no knickers.." we say in Manchester.

The RAAF have taken a different step. they ordered F18E's as an iterim aircraft until they get the F35's.

Now they have a very similar size defence budget but seem to get way more bang for their buck. Where is the CF going wrong?

The Aussies have also sussed that the F18E/F's are 'good enough' for present ops but won't have a 30 year shelf life like the F35.

The RAAF will most likely shelve or sell its F18E/F's once the three squadrons of F35's are operational, according to the official RAAF website.

I don't understand how they compare the f-35 to the F-18E/F. The superhornet is much larger than the old hornet.

To use the Aussies -> they purchased a much larger Fighter to replaced their old F-18. To later buy smaller bird than the present f-18. Not making any sense to me.

For Canada, I still prefer the good old two engine approach to our cold winters.

The F35 has a lot of advantages over the F18E/F. I saw a great show on it on the Military Channel and the Aussies are a pragmatic bunch. The think that the F18's have a limited shelf life. The Russians and others are designing fighters and weapons systems with shooting the F18 era aircraft out of the sky.

The F35 program will give us an aircraft that will be good-to-go for thirty years. The CF18's have not delivered on that.

They have been of limited use since Gulf War 1 and they are not out in Afghanistan protecting our infantry because of operational issues and lack of mission capability.

The F35's will be the multi-role aircraft of choice for many of nations that we have fought alongside. The Yanks, Brits, Aussies, Dutch and a few others are all buying this aircraft.

Inter-operability will be key. I like it.

[EyeBrock]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

That's not nearly the immediate threat that an unstable nation of 200 million Muslims living 500 KMs north of Australia presents.

China may be a future threat, it may not, only time will tell.

Indonesia is domestically a very stable country. Australia, however, is keenly aware of its territory being coveted by Indonesia, China, and India.

I imagine as China (and Russia and everyone else) ratchets up their interest and presence in the Arctic then Canadians will start to pay attention to what they currently take for granted.

I would say the biggest threat to our sovereignty now comes from our Arctic and North. I’m not alone in thinking this. A google check reveals numerous papers on this issue.

[Bacardi4206]

Regarding the Korea conflict and our military strength at that time. Can you imagine what our military would be like if we kept that funding over those years and kept our military strength? I mean that's how the U.S. got so militarily powerful. A good economy + good military funding without breaking the funding chain. Nothing but constant advancements. *Drools at the thought*.

Anyways, we need to get this government on track. Get back to the days where we actually had a good military capable of going to war and defending our borders. This current situation is ridiculous.

[HyperionTheEvil]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

I'd argue that Australia has several ready made threats nearby that Canada doesn't (Indonesia & China for example). That impetus keeps Aussies willing to spend money on defence whereas Canadians don't have that.

Canada has China as a threat these days.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/g20/2010 ... 84401.html

Sorry we're not likely to go to war with China over anything, no matter how much the US would love it.

[HyperionTheEvil]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The F35 has a lot of advantages over the F18E/F. I saw a great show on it on the Military Channel and the Aussies are a pragmatic bunch. The think that the F18's have a limited shelf life. The Russians and others are designing fighters and weapons systems with shooting the F18 era aircraft out of the sky.

The F35 program will give us an aircraft that will be good-to-go for thirty years. The CF18's have not delivered on that.

They have been of limited use since Gulf War 1 and they are not out in Afghanistan protecting our infantry because of operational issues and lack of mission capability.

The F35's will be the multi-role aircraft of choice for many of nations that we have fought alongside. The Yanks, Brits, Aussies, Dutch and a few others are all buying this aircraft.

Inter-operability will be key. I like it.

The F-35's are a waste of money they cost nearly three times the amount of the Typhoon Eurofighter is just as effective and we won't have sovereignty issues with American Producers.

[HyperionTheEvil]

bootlegga bootlegga:

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

Yup pretty much, thinking long term is always wise. However that doesn't mean you overspend and the government has to think about what our role really will be? Are we going to be more focused on Arctic Sovereignty or as like the US does and overspend themselves into a finincial blackhole

For those saying "Spend spend spend" a reminder national defence isn't the only thing our country has to do (And spare me the argument "Well w/o defence you have nothing). We have Medicare, Education infrastructure and payinf off our current debt to do as well.

We taxpayers have to pay for all of those things

Yes, and instead of giving billions of dollars to Canadian banks (even though they didn't need or request it) in 2008, we could have done something for Arctic defence. Part of the 'stimulus package' could have gone to expanding a shipyard in Canada so that it could build ships for the navy, or we could have bought new Buffalo SAR planes from Viking Air in BC, or started construction on some icebreakers, or whatever. Prior to that, we had years of double digit billion dollar surpluses. The cash was there, just not the willingness on the part of our politicians.

You're right, Canada does not need to spend $500 billion a year on defence and run up massive deficits, but surely during the boom years, we could have spent more than we did. If you aren't embarrassed that little old Denmark has more Arctic capability than Canada (despite being far smaller in terms of economy, population and land mass - even including Greenland), then it's time to give your head a shake.

Actually no i'm not embarrassed about Denmark because the chance that we will be going to war with Denmark over the arctic is about zero. And you'll get no arguments from me that banks and other multi-national companies get away with bloody murder. But our economy is what it is and i refuse to give into the fear-mongering from some people about the Chinese (also know in right-wing circles as the godless-yellow-horde)or some other mystery enemy in some lame attempt to blowing our national budget

We definitely need new fighters that price-per-performance strongly Favours the Eurofighter , we do need new supply ships for the navy. As for the army i would reccomened not replacing their current armored tanks.

[EyeBrock]

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The F35 has a lot of advantages over the F18E/F. I saw a great show on it on the Military Channel and the Aussies are a pragmatic bunch. The think that the F18's have a limited shelf life. The Russians and others are designing fighters and weapons systems with shooting the F18 era aircraft out of the sky.

The F35 program will give us an aircraft that will be good-to-go for thirty years. The CF18's have not delivered on that.

They have been of limited use since Gulf War 1 and they are not out in Afghanistan protecting our infantry because of operational issues and lack of mission capability.

The F35's will be the multi-role aircraft of choice for many of nations that we have fought alongside. The Yanks, Brits, Aussies, Dutch and a few others are all buying this aircraft.

Inter-operability will be key. I like it.

The F-35's are a waste of money they cost nearly three times the amount of the Typhoon Eurofighter is just as effective and we won't have sovereignty issues with American Producers.

Again, you should stick to fish-head type topics because you seem to know very little about this one.

Cost of a new Eurofighter, 75 million pounds. That's $120,000,000 an aircraft.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... -deal.html

The pentagon are not impressed about rising F35 costs, at $112,000,000. In Air Force and Tory speak, that means the F35 is cheaper than the Typhoon, not three times more expensive.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62H4WF20100320


So more bollocks from you too.

[TheCanadian]

I really don't see why we have to "buy" them. We built the Avro and we can't build a good ship.

Once again money gone to waste literally.

[HyperionTheEvil]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

HyperionTheEvil HyperionTheEvil:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

The F35 has a lot of advantages over the F18E/F. I saw a great show on it on the Military Channel and the Aussies are a pragmatic bunch. The think that the F18's have a limited shelf life. The Russians and others are designing fighters and weapons systems with shooting the F18 era aircraft out of the sky.

The F35 program will give us an aircraft that will be good-to-go for thirty years. The CF18's have not delivered on that.

They have been of limited use since Gulf War 1 and they are not out in Afghanistan protecting our infantry because of operational issues and lack of mission capability.

The F35's will be the multi-role aircraft of choice for many of nations that we have fought alongside. The Yanks, Brits, Aussies, Dutch and a few others are all buying this aircraft.

Inter-operability will be key. I like it.

The F-35's are a waste of money they cost nearly three times the amount of the Typhoon Eurofighter is just as effective and we won't have sovereignty issues with American Producers.

Again, you should stick to fish-head type topics because you seem to know very little about this one.

Cost of a new Eurofighter, 75 million pounds. That's $120,000,000 an aircraft.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... -deal.html

The pentagon are not impressed about rising F35 costs, at $112,000,000. In Air Force and Tory speak, that means the F35 is cheaper than the Typhoon, not three times more expensive.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62H4WF20100320


So more bollocks from you too.

Try again sunshine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon

http://www.nao.org.uk//idoc.ashx?docId= ... version=-1
€63 million (flyaway cost, estimated),[3]
GB£69.3 million[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II

http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/shared/media ... 28-072.pdf
US$191.9 million (flyaway cost for FY 2010) per unit

And considering the F-35 program is 50% over budget there is no telling how much they will really cost in the end including maintenance and supply.