[Zipperfish]

Lemmy Lemmy:

I'm not a lawyer either and I understand the distinction. If you don't, that's on you, not me. Sheesh.

I understand the distinction--actually I thought it was so obvious that I didn't even explicitly articulate it. Touché.

zipperfish zipperfish:

And if you ARE arrested on that basis, you should sue.

If? There's probably not many on CKA who know the back of cop car as well as me. Ran a little wild as a boy, I did.

zipperfish zipperfish:

Nope. If you haven't done anything to warrant being arrested and are, at court it's the cop who's gonna have to do the proving.

Well, that would depend on why you were at court. If you were suing the cop for wrongful arrest, then as plaintiff, you'd have to make your case on a balance of probabilities. In court the cop almost always gets the benefit of the doubt because (a) he will have taken notes at the time and (b) the court normally assumes that the cop does not have a personal interest in the outcome of the case, whereas you do.

Or you could go the Police Ombudsmen, or whatever they call them whewre you are. Then you'd get an "independent" investigation, probably by the cop's drinking buddy.

Even if you won your case, the harm done to you was likely minimal, and therefore the cop would probably just have to say "My Bad" and move on.

[EyeBrock]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

In the article, the Toronto Police Chief says:

$1:

He said a citizen has a right not to identify themselves and they are free to leave the restricted area around the fencing. However, officers may arrest the person if they appear to be causing a problem and do not leave the area.

That's actually not true. You can be arrested anytime, anywhere for failure to identify yourself. There is no "right" not to identify yourself to a peace officer.

Hopefully this is the last of these types of events we see here in Canada for a long time. They're a waste of money and nothing but a huge hassle for anyone close by.

You couldn’t be more wrong Zip.

This act was just an amendment to an existing Ontario statute, as in it’s a provincial offence.
You have to commit an offence for an officer to be able to demand name, DOB, address in Ontario.
If you are driving a motor vehicle in Ontario you must have a drivers licence. Police have a power to demand that licence at anytime you are driving on a highway (read 'road') to prove you are licenced.

In the case of the amendment to the PWA(On) for the G20, you have to commit an offence under that act for a cop to be able to demand name, date-of-birth and address. That’s so a summons can be served for the offence.

Here’s the way it goes.

Commit the offence and get seen by a cop doing it or the cop must have reasonable grounds to believe an offence has been committed ( that will be scrutinised in court).

Refuse to identify yourself.

Get arrested until identity has been confirmed.

Release.


If you don't commit an offence, police can not demand you identify yourself.

[HaRdLy]

kenmore kenmore:

Yes and welcome to the smell of things to come... harper's police state!

Give it up already, you sound like a broken record, sheesh.

[BartSimpson]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

You couldn’t be more wrong Zip.

I'd really prefer you not challenge him with such comments.

[EyeBrock]

It's just my area of expertise Bart!

Plus I was actually there.

[ShepherdsDog]

kenmore kenmore:

Yes and welcome to the smell of things to come... harper's police state!

The only time Canada's had something even vaguely resembling a police state, was when a Quebec Liberal declared martial law.

[kenmore]

They say this was worse than the October Crises.. more people arrested and most of them innocent. ... Trudeau had to do what he did.. harper is just appealing to the so called moral right wingers..

[ShepherdsDog]

yeah, and you're still a hack, so all is well with the world.

[Lemmy]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

There's probably not many on CKA who know the back of cop car as well as me. Ran a little wild as a boy, I did.

I can comment on a few different municipalies' holding facilities. The klink in Alliston, ON is particularly nice; much moreso than the one in Lisbon, Portugal. That's a longer story...

[EyeBrock]

I was locked up in Manchester when I was on leave from the Falklands. Drunk and disorderly.

Who me? Never touched Southern Comfort since.

[ShepherdsDog]

To not arrest this protestor would have been a crime against humanity.

[DrCaleb]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Most of my experience with cops was as a teenage longhair from a bad part of town so I didn't have the pedigree you have. I didn't carry ID and so I regularly found myself in the back of a paddy wagon. I argued my case, but that leads to Lesson Two--if you argue with a cop, you'll probably end up eating dirt soon.

Oh, man. Pedigree? Hahaha. I'm just as much a mutt as you. I was as 'bad' as you could get in a small town. Nights like this (hot, twilight till 3 am), I used to get a couple buddies and pedal all around town looking to get noticed by cops. We weren't doing anything naughty, but we'd see them at the end of a long street, point to them and pedal furiously in the opposite direction they were going, and turn down a bike path - just to see what they would do. We were playing the 'suspicious' youth out on a week night till 5 am. They needed something to do.

Sometimes they would 'catch' us, and just ask us the standard questions. It's how we got to know them. No harm, no foul. Sometimes we'd point them to something that actually was suspicious. I never carried ID either. Wouldn't present it if I did. But it was a small town back then, and everyone know everyone anyhow.