[llama66]

Had the Brits had any foresight in '48, they would have divided Palestine Mandate into Israel and Palestine, thus giving a homeland to both parties (like the Peel Commission had suggested in 1937) , and we, in theory, would not be having this discussion. In my opinion Jerusalem should be an international city (Like the UNSCOP suggested in 1947) under administration by the UN. The city is too important religiously to be controlled by one nation.

[martin14]

llama66 llama66:

Had the Brits had any foresight in '48, they would have divided Palestine Mandate into Israel and Palestine, thus giving a homeland to both parties (like the Peel Commission had suggested in 1937) , and we, in theory, would not be having this discussion. In my opinion Jerusalem should be an international city (Like the UNSCOP suggested in 1947) under administration by the UN. The city is too important religiously to be controlled by one nation.

They did all this before '48.

The plan was rejected by the Arabs.

The day after the British Mandate expired, there was a war.

The Arabs lost.

[2Cdo]

martin14 martin14:

llama66 llama66:

Had the Brits had any foresight in '48, they would have divided Palestine Mandate into Israel and Palestine, thus giving a homeland to both parties (like the Peel Commission had suggested in 1937) , and we, in theory, would not be having this discussion. In my opinion Jerusalem should be an international city (Like the UNSCOP suggested in 1947) under administration by the UN. The city is too important religiously to be controlled by one nation.

They did all this before '48.

The plan was rejected by the Arabs.

The day after the British Mandate expired, there was an attack by Arab nations.

The Arabs lost.

Fixed your post a little bit.

[GreenTiger]

This incident with the food aid and the Israeli navy has gotten to be very complicated. On the face of it it looks like the Israeli were being a bunch of bullies, but more reporter have come in stating that some of what was supposed to be food and so on were weapons and armor. I don't know what to believe on this incident anymore.

[martin14]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

This incident with the food aid and the Israeli navy has gotten to be very complicated. On the face of it it looks like the Israeli were being a bunch of bullies, but more reporter have come in stating that some of what was supposed to be food and so on were weapons and armor. I don't know what to believe on this incident anymore.

You can be sure the Israelis dont always play fair.

Years of suicide bombings, kidnappings, and booby traps have taught them.


You can also be sure Hamas and friends will do anything and everything

to make publicity for themselves, including killing others and using

people as their saps.




Case in point: the ship that got raided was in the papers and forums for days.

The next boat, the Irish one, docked in Ashdod, made news for 15 minutes.

[bootlegga]

RUEZ RUEZ:

bootlegga bootlegga:

If the situation was reversed, would it be okay for the activists to announce that one of their guys was getting a medal for killing 6 Israeli soldiers? Of course not.

No it wouldn't be right because they instigated the violence. Had the Israelis gone in their guns blazing we'd all be appalled but they went in with the intentions of enforcing a blockade not killing civilians. The violence began when the "protesters" started attacking the soldiers. What's so hard to understand?

They didn't instigate the violence. The Israeli commandoes did that when they boarded a ship in international waters. The legality of that blockade is highly questionable (when one nation blockades another, it's considered an act of war). Even if it was inside the 12 mile zone that international law recognizes, Israel has no real right to blockade Gaza, anymore than Canada has the right to blockade St. Pierre and Miquelon.

[bootlegga]

martin14 martin14:

aww, dont feel so bad for him Ruez

booty just caught one right between the eyes... and he knows it.

Not at all.

Spin it however you want, but one (or more) guy saying that he wants to be a martyr is nothing more than bravado. To me, its the same as one boxer saying he's going to kick the other guy's ass. His statement was far more likely due to the nasty reputation Israeli security forces have when it comes to dealing with protesters.

[bootlegga]

Bodah Bodah:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Sorry, PR and martydom are two very different things...but then both of you would know that if you knew anything about PR or held onto any belief other than "Israel is absolutely, positively, 100% unfallable".

In this case I truely believed they did nothing wrong. I guess you were watching different videos than the rest of us. Either that or you believe it's just propaganda created by the Israelis made up at some film set in Van Nuys, CA. with Arab American actors.

You telling me your taking the tin-foil slant on this ?

Well, so far, based on what the 'evidence' released by the Israelis, they were far from right. Killing nine people to stop a shipment of food, toys and some power tools, knives, slingshots and gas masks is insane.



If Israel, with its fighter bombers, helicopter gunships and Merkava tanks is scared of activists arming themselves with that, they might as well pack it in and move to the South Pacific, because they are doomed. Frankly, I'm surprised Mossad couldn't rustle up a crate or two of AK-47s or RPGs to at least make it look like they had a real justification for boarding the ship.

IMO, this attack is quite similar to the German sinking of the Lusitania in WW1. The Germans contended that it was carrying weapons for Britain on board (as well as passengers), and therefore they had every right to sink her. As the aggressor, it was up to Germany to prove its point, which it failed to do. Israel has the same obligation here, and if that video represents the sum of the 'weapons' on board, then Israel had zero right to board here and create this whole mess. Until they can offer up real evidence (a few mysterious shell casings won't do it for me), then they are the guilty party here.

Now, if it had had a crate or two of AK-47s, mortar tubes, RPG-7s, whatever, any sort of real weapons, then I would back Israel, and strongly. But come on, what is Israel worried an Islamic David is going to kill the Jewish Goliath? It'd be laughable if nine people hadn't died and another dozen or so injured.

I generally come down on the side of Israel, but this time, they went way too far. It didn't help that some Muslims decided to poke the sleeping bear, but if country calls itself a democracy and styles itself one, then it has to act like one. If you want to the moral high ground, then really have to be more moral than your enemies. Killing idiots because they are 'smuggling' slingshots isn't something good democracies (or nations) do. To me, that's something that the Muslim dictatorships nearby would do, not a Western demiocracy.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

The legality of that blockade is highly questionable (when one nation blockades another, it's considered an act of war)

You see the blockade as wrong because it has no impact on you and yours. This blockade has a direct impact on the safety of Israeli civilians....it prevents them from being murdered. As for an act of war..... I don't know if you've been keeping up with events, but Israel IS at war with Hamas and has been for awhile. This will end, and the world will recognize the legitimacy of Hamas rule in Gaza when Hamas acknowledges Israel has a right to exist.

[saturn_656]

bootlegga bootlegga:

RUEZ RUEZ:

bootlegga bootlegga:

If the situation was reversed, would it be okay for the activists to announce that one of their guys was getting a medal for killing 6 Israeli soldiers? Of course not.

No it wouldn't be right because they instigated the violence. Had the Israelis gone in their guns blazing we'd all be appalled but they went in with the intentions of enforcing a blockade not killing civilians. The violence began when the "protesters" started attacking the soldiers. What's so hard to understand?

They didn't instigate the violence. The Israeli commandoes did that when they boarded a ship in international waters. The legality of that blockade is highly questionable (when one nation blockades another, it's considered an act of war). Even if it was inside the 12 mile zone that international law recognizes, Israel has no real right to blockade Gaza, anymore than Canada has the right to blockade St. Pierre and Miquelon.

Israel is at present the ultimate authority in Gaza. It controls the airspace and the sea approaches.

Gaza has no internationally recognized government.

[Proculation]

They didn't want a state in 1948. The Jews were for that. But the Arabs decided to attack.

If they had accepted the UN resolution, there would be no war. They just want to kill most Jews as possible.

[bootlegga]

RUEZ RUEZ:

bootlegga bootlegga:

Whatever, we now return to your regularly scheduled Muslim bashing...

That was in response to this;

Bodah Bodah:

Shhh your ruining the hate the JOO's campaign.
/sracasm

So to you too!

[Bacardi4206]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Well, so far, based on what the 'evidence' released by the Israelis, they were far from right. Killing nine people to stop a shipment of food, toys and some power tools, knives, slingshots and gas masks is insane.



If Israel, with its fighter bombers, helicopter gunships and Merkava tanks is scared of activists arming themselves with that, they might as well pack it in and move to the South Pacific, because they are doomed. Frankly, I'm surprised Mossad couldn't rustle up a crate or two of AK-47s or RPGs to at least make it look like they had a real justification for boarding the ship.

IMO, this attack is quite similar to the German sinking of the Lusitania in WW1. The Germans contended that it was carrying weapons for Britain on board (as well as passengers), and therefore they had every right to sink her. As the aggressor, it was up to Germany to prove its point, which it failed to do. Israel has the same obligation here, and if that video represents the sum of the 'weapons' on board, then Israel had zero right to board here and create this whole mess. Until they can offer up real evidence (a few mysterious shell casings won't do it for me), then they are the guilty party here.

Now, if it had had a crate or two of AK-47s, mortar tubes, RPG-7s, whatever, any sort of real weapons, then I would back Israel, and strongly. But come on, what is Israel worried an Islamic David is going to kill the Jewish Goliath? It'd be laughable if nine people hadn't died and another dozen or so injured.

I generally come down on the side of Israel, but this time, they went way too far. It didn't help that some Muslims decided to poke the sleeping bear, but if country calls itself a democracy and styles itself one, then it has to act like one. If you want to the moral high ground, then really have to be more moral than your enemies. Killing idiots because they are 'smuggling' slingshots isn't something good democracies (or nations) do. To me, that's something that the Muslim dictatorships nearby would do, not a Western demiocracy.

Are you fucking stupid or something? The commandos put up these blockaids for the exact reason of trying to keep things like AK-47's, RPG and other rockets from getting into Gaza and in the hands of Hamas. As for the video, please just read the facts my god. The commandos were armed with nothing more than paintball guns and riotguns. The only actual guns they had were there side-arms. They were not expected what was suppose to be a aid ship to be so heavily swarmed with nutjob terrorists who wanted to kill them. Neither did they expect them to be prepared even with that. Those "activists" caught them unprepared as they beat them with metal pipes and stabbed them as they were grappling down a rope. Please, show me and the commandos how to defend off 20 guys all attacking you with metal pipes and knives all at once with nothing more than a paintball gun because I'd like to know. Obviously that's impossible so yes, that is a threat in that situation.

You know I am not even going to respond to anything more you say on the subject, you and anybody else like you. Normally I can refrain from getting angry about touchy subjects but anybody who well researches Israel and it's conflicts would be hard not to get touchy in the defense of Israel. Go look up Entabee or however it's spelled, battle of Entabee or something like that. Let me just give you a brief description of what that was about. Basicly it took place before the war on terror or infact terrorists being on anybodies radar. A bunch of muslim and some german muslim terrorists hijacked a Israeli flight, the flight was full of over 300 Israeli civilians. The terrorists made the pilots land in south africa in a area controlled by a warlord that was sympathetic to these group of terrorists and gave them shelter. They held these citizens captive. Guess what the world and the UN did for these people? Nothing, absolutely nothing. Israel begged and begged but they wouldn't budge. Guess what happened next? Israel said fuck this shit, because they would have to go over arab countries to refuel which they wouldn't allow. They luckily had this large aircraft called the hercules which had longer range without refueling, they loaded it up with soldiers. Flew to south africa, patrdropped and caught the warlords and terrorists soldiers by suprise and killed them all. They rescued the prisoners, all 300 except 1 who tried to escape and was executed and flew back to Israel.

Guess what happened next? The international community went into a uproar and bitched out Israel and even tryed to condem them for there actions. This was lead by the very same warlord who appealed to the UN that he was just holding the prisoners as a means to keep them safe. (You know how those African warlords are, always so very nice and upstanding citizens). The UN diddn't belive him but regardless they were still condeming Israel. They eventually let Israel go free with this action but they also made it clear they diddn't support it either. After that incident, Israel said fuck the international community and PR. Israel does nothing but try and protect itself and it's citizens. They get no help, nothing but bullshit from everybody and all they get this biased critisizm and bullshit. The shit happening today has been happening for awhile now starting from that one incident. Where terrorists hijacked Israel citizens, holding them hostage and even executed one of them. Nobody did anything, nobody would allow Israel to do anything. Israel acted quickly in order to save those peoples lives. If they had not done so, they certonly would have all been dead. So yeah, fuck you and fuck all anti-Israel protestors who protest them with a bias and prejiduce.

[Bacardi4206]

Eh, I am sorry bootlegga. Diddn't mean to be so hostle, re-reading it sounded like a bit too much. Regardless, my post stays.

[RUEZ]

bootlegga bootlegga:

They didn't instigate the violence. The Israeli commandoes did that when they boarded a ship in international waters. The legality of that blockade is highly questionable (when one nation blockades another, it's considered an act of war). Even if it was inside the 12 mile zone that international law recognizes, Israel has no real right to blockade Gaza, anymore than Canada has the right to blockade St. Pierre and Miquelon.

I'm afraid your definition of violence and mine vary greatly. I don't consider boarding a ship as violent. I do consider beating someone as violent. Therefore the violence began when the beating began. Sucks to be the ones without the guns.