[Brenda]

Recession hit small towns too
For a lot of people, it is very hard here. There is not much work, and employers pay shit. You can't feed kids from $8/hr, while childcare is more expensive than that. Now how do you get out? You can't pack up your shit and move to the lower mainland into a basement suite with 4 kids and no job, and not even money to pay your Budget rent-a-car...

[ShepherdsDog]

The area you chose to live in is an expensive one most of the time. One of the reasons we chose to buy in Manitoba, rather than BC was the price factor. I had job offers in Vancouver, Victoria and in Winnipeg. It was housing costs that decided it for my wife and I.

I paid under 300K for a house in a nice area of Winnipeg(North River Heights near Academy and Oxford for those who know the city), and I was able to buy a rural property about 330 km to the NW for under 90K. This included a quarter section(65 hectares for you Europeans) of land-initially. Neither houses were fixer uppers, especially our place in Winnipeg(although my wife did have wall paper removed and new carpet put in), although the farm house needed a few additions, sat TV, hook up to the town's water system (rather than relying on our own well, which we used for drinking water), a patio, new aerification system for the trout slough and signs posted saying that hunting and fishing were only allowable with the permission of the owner....oh, and a bay window, which was my wife's idea.

[Yogi]

Short term gain, for long term pain! We will find that when all the costs are tallied, that a lot more could have been had for a lot less.
And these will only be SOME of the true $$$ costs. The actual REAL total will never be released to us until all of those pols responsible for the spending have ridden off into the sunset with their publicly provided poke of gold!

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

Sure - but why subsidise it with highway construction when the money could give a better economic return elsewhere.

Where would that be? Improving infrastructure to the best known ski area in Canada is a no-brainer.

andyt andyt:

We built a rapid transit line, not where it was needed most, the eastern corridor, but to the airport so we could ferry tourists for 2 weeks.

andyt andyt:

Idiot, read what I wrote again. The Evergreen line that would transport people from the high growth areas is much more urgently needed and has been consistently delayed.

No, you're the idiot. You made it sound like the Canada line will never be used again, but that's not true is it? Vancouver International is one of Canada's busiest airports, so putting a train line to it is common sense, espceially given Vancouver's reputation as the 'Gateway to Asia'. Or are you upset at all those cabbies who will lose fares to the Skytrain?

Whether or not you meant it, you were the one with the idiotic comment here.

andyt andyt:

How will a better convention center stimulate North American (read US) convention business hit hard by the recession and the increased hassles at the border? Americans find it easier to just do their conventions at home, and it's not like they don't have some nice places to go at home.

By providing more incentive to hold conventions in Vancouver instead of Las Vegas or somewhere else. You can't attract conventions with crappy facilities, which is something Edmonton can attest to.

andyt andyt:

I don't care about a few elite athletes having somewhere else to train. Callaghan Valley, for instance will be totally shut down. The Richmond Oval will convert into a Community center, which is a good idea - but it seems a little out of the way.

Well, you're in the minority of Canadians then. Many of us want good places for our athletes to train in.

andyt andyt:

Better yet, don't hold the Olympics, put that billion into building low income housing and maybe putting more cops on the street day to day.

That does nothing to raise the profile of BC and Vancouver worldwide though.

andyt andyt:

You're not from around here, are you?

Geez, what gave that away?

The fact that my profile says the Diefenbunker? Or the numerous posts where I talk about Edmonton and Calgary?

andyt andyt:

Social housing and community venues were always supposed to be a big part of the village, and have been consistently cut back. Many are saying we can't afford any social housing at the site now. I agree with that - why put social housing in one of the most expensive areas of the city - but where's the money to build it in lower cost neighborhoods now we've blown our wad on 2 weeks of Eh! O'Canada Go?

And no, I'm not happy how the Liberals have used the boom times to enrich their developer buddies while social inequality has grown and more and more people can't afford to live in Vancouver. The usual conservative (please don't confuse the provincial Liberals with the Federal party, in BC the Liberals are the conservatives) crap - cut taxes but keep spending so there's no money for emergencies, and spend on the luxury stuff instead of the basics that people really need.

If you want affordable housing so bad, why don't you start a non-profit organization (or volunteer for Habitat for Humanity) and do something about it, instead of waiting for the government to pay for it?

[andyt]

bootlegga bootlegga:

andyt andyt:

Sure - but why subsidise it with highway construction when the money could give a better economic return elsewhere.

Where would that be? Improving infrastructure to the best known ski area in Canada is a no-brainer. Improving congestion in the lower mainland would likely lead to much higher returns. People are getting out to Whistler as it is, there are no traffic tie ups or real problems. This just gets them there a little faster - big deal. Do you think Whistler is bankrupt because of the highway?

andyt andyt:

We built a rapid transit line, not where it was needed most, the eastern corridor, but to the airport so we could ferry tourists for 2 weeks.

andyt andyt:

Idiot, read what I wrote again. The Evergreen line that would transport people from the high growth areas is much more urgently needed and has been consistently delayed.

No, you're the idiot. You made it sound like the Canada line will never be used again, but that's not true is it? Vancouver International is one of Canada's busiest airports, so putting a train line to it is common sense, espceially given Vancouver's reputation as the 'Gateway to Asia'. Or are you upset at all those cabbies who will lose fares to the Skytrain? C'mon, don't put words in my mouth. The Canada line use has so far surpassed expectations. And I get a nice bridge to ride my bike across. But the Evergreen line is far more desperately needed, would far surpass Canada Line use. And it's been promised for over 10 years, when Canada Line wasn't even on the horizon.

Whether or not you meant it, you were the one with the idiotic comment here.

andyt andyt:

How will a better convention center stimulate North American (read US) convention business hit hard by the recession and the increased hassles at the border? Americans find it easier to just do their conventions at home, and it's not like they don't have some nice places to go at home.

By providing more incentive to hold conventions in Vancouver instead of Las Vegas or somewhere else. You can't attract conventions with crappy facilities, which is something Edmonton can attest to. You just don't get it, do you? Sure, it might attract the odd extra convention. But Americans, those that still are holding conventions in a recession, are doing so in the US, where there's no security hassles at the border and they don't need a passport to get back home - since so few Americans hold passports. It's again about money better spent elsewhere. Or used to reduce the deficit/debt.

andyt andyt:

I don't care about a few elite athletes having somewhere else to train. Callaghan Valley, for instance will be totally shut down. The Richmond Oval will convert into a Community center, which is a good idea - but it seems a little out of the way.

Well, you're in the minority of Canadians then. Many of us want good places for our athletes to train in.

andyt andyt:

Better yet, don't hold the Olympics, put that billion into building low income housing and maybe putting more cops on the street day to day.

That does nothing to raise the profile of BC and Vancouver worldwide though. It sure does. Our worldwide profile is pretty high actually. But part of that profile are the horrible conditions in the DTES and all the homeless running around. If we could make a dent in that problem, it would definitely improve our image.

andyt andyt:

You're not from around here, are you?

Geez, what gave that away?

The fact that my profile says the Diefenbunker? Or the numerous posts where I talk about Edmonton and Calgary? Sorry, I didn't look at your profile, nor do I keep tracks of your posts. But if you want to comment about local conditions, it would help if you knew the score.

andyt andyt:

Social housing and community venues were always supposed to be a big part of the village, and have been consistently cut back. Many are saying we can't afford any social housing at the site now. I agree with that - why put social housing in one of the most expensive areas of the city - but where's the money to build it in lower cost neighborhoods now we've blown our wad on 2 weeks of Eh! O'Canada Go?

And no, I'm not happy how the Liberals have used the boom times to enrich their developer buddies while social inequality has grown and more and more people can't afford to live in Vancouver. The usual conservative (please don't confuse the provincial Liberals with the Federal party, in BC the Liberals are the conservatives) crap - cut taxes but keep spending so there's no money for emergencies, and spend on the luxury stuff instead of the basics that people really need.

If you want affordable housing so bad, why don't you start a non-profit organization (or volunteer for Habitat for Humanity) and do something about it, instead of waiting for the government to pay for it? Ah, the usual bullshit answer. We do have non-profit housing organizations - they can't raise nearly the money required for housing. Government can. If you want Olympics so bad, why don't you start a private organization that funds them. That would make more sense. Fund elite athletes who want to play around, and the people who want to watch them, privately. In fact we can use that for the Whistler highway too - let Whistler fund it, since it's the one getting the benefit out of it. Same with the convention center - let the tourist industry that benefits fund that. Use government funds to build a functioning society that doesn't kick people to the curb. But I know, you'd rather have welfare go to business than to people who really need it Corporate welfare makes the pittance we give poor people seem like very thin gruel indeed.

[BartSimpson]

Regina Regina:

I talked was guys who were there and were with the men's hockey team and they were told all the athlete's housing was to be converted to affordable housing. Think they said the oval track will be converted to a market and UBC gets a new rink which they needed. One of the biggest factors is where the $400 million revenue comes from. It's not all money that is shuffled around the country but is new money brought from around the world and spent which has a greater impact.

I'm coming up for a visit in May and was hoping to take a spin on the oval - they're not going to wreck the ice before that, are they?

[Regina]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Regina Regina:

I talked was guys who were there and were with the men's hockey team and they were told all the athlete's housing was to be converted to affordable housing. Think they said the oval track will be converted to a market and UBC gets a new rink which they needed. One of the biggest factors is where the $400 million revenue comes from. It's not all money that is shuffled around the country but is new money brought from around the world and spent which has a greater impact.

I'm coming up for a visit in May and was hoping to take a spin on the oval - they're not going to wreck the ice before that, are they?

It'll be a swimming pool by then............bring your bikini.

[BartSimpson]

Regina Regina:

It'll be a swimming pool by then............bring your bikini.

Me, in a Speedo, in Vancouver. Yah, that'll be the end of any lingering notions of cross-border amity right there.

[andyt]

It was never the plan to make all the athletes village affordable housing. That is prime real estate, and nobody would be nuts enough to try that. They were going to make a portion of it subsidized, but then the recession hit, and the builder went bust, so it's all up in the air right now. I don't think it makes sense to have subsidized housing there. I get the idea of mixing subsidized with market so you don't create ghettos. But I think it's better to just make as much profit as possible from a very lux area like this - the last major waterfront land available in Vancouver, which would allow you to build more low income housing at more affordable sites.

[bootlegga]

andyt andyt:

Improving congestion in the lower mainland would likely lead to much higher returns. People are getting out to Whistler as it is, there are no traffic tie ups or real problems. This just gets them there a little faster - big deal. Do you think Whistler is bankrupt because of the highway?

It's not just faster, it's a helluva lot safer. It's a fact that twinned highways are much safer than other highways. That's a reason there is a push to twin major highways around the country (like the Banff-Lake Louise highway). Having tourists die on a road to a world famous tourist destination will not bring kudos to Vancouver or Canada.

andyt andyt:

C'mon, don't put words in my mouth. The Canada line use has so far surpassed expectations. And I get a nice bridge to ride my bike across. But the Evergreen line is far more desperately needed, would far surpass Canada Line use. And it's been promised for over 10 years, when Canada Line wasn't even on the horizon.

Well then say that, instead of insinuating that VANOC built a rail line that will never be used again, which is exactly what you did.

andyt andyt:

You just don't get it, do you? Sure, it might attract the odd extra convention. But Americans, those that still are holding conventions in a recession, are doing so in the US, where there's no security hassles at the border and they don't need a passport to get back home - since so few Americans hold passports. It's again about money better spent elsewhere. Or used to reduce the deficit/debt.

It's obvious that you don't get it.

Edmonton Northlands just built a new convention centre and its doing even better than the old one. A new facility with modern amenities can always attract more business. It sure looks like the new place is pretty busy (at least one international group holding a convention each month this year);

http://www.vancouverconventioncentre.com/events/?

andyt andyt:

It sure does. Our worldwide profile is pretty high actually. But part of that profile are the horrible conditions in the DTES and all the homeless running around. If we could make a dent in that problem, it would definitely improve our image.

You're living in a fool's paradise if you think some subsidized housing or anti-poverty programs will raise Vancouver's profile more than hosting the Winter Olympics.

andyt andyt:

Sorry, I didn't look at your profile, nor do I keep tracks of your posts. But if you want to comment about local conditions, it would help if you knew the score.

Ahh, the old, 'Keep your nose out of our business outsider' response. Rather hypocritical coming from a guy who routinely criticizes goings-on in other provinces/countries.

andyt andyt:

Ah, the usual bullshit answer. We do have non-profit housing organizations - they can't raise nearly the money required for housing. Government can. If you want Olympics so bad, why don't you start a private organization that funds them. That would make more sense. Fund elite athletes who want to play around, and the people who want to watch them, privately. In fact we can use that for the Whistler highway too - let Whistler fund it, since it's the one getting the benefit out of it. Same with the convention center - let the tourist industry that benefits fund that. Use government funds to build a functioning society that doesn't kick people to the curb. But I know, you'd rather have welfare go to business than to people who really need it Corporate welfare makes the pittance we give poor people seem like very thin gruel indeed.

It funny how you make it sound like the highway to Whistler and the Convention centre ONLY benefit the tourism industry, when in fact they benefit all sorts of other industries, from restaurants to transportation to retail, etc. And because they get business, people get jobs and then go out and buy stuff, which means more taxes to fund all the anti-poverty programs so near and dear to your heart.

I never said I support corporate welfare, but understand that sometimes even corporations (or governments) can't fund everything, and that for huge projects like the Olympics, they both need a little help from each other to pull it off.

Geez, I guess you didn't see all those ads on TV and around Vancouver. You know, from McDonald's, Bell, CTV, RBC, Rona and all those other Olympic sponsors. Just like your anti-poverty programs, the Olympics relies on both corporate and public aid, and there's nothing wrong with that because they both provide some public good. It's not my problem if you are too blind to see it.

[PENATRATOR]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

I was able to buy a rural property about 330 km to the NW for under 90K. This included a quarter section(65 hectares for you Europeans) of land-initially. Neither houses were fixer uppers, especially our place in Winnipeg(although my wife did have wall paper removed and new carpet put in), although the farm house needed a few additions, sat TV, hook up to the town's water system (rather than relying on our own well, which we used for drinking water), a patio, new aerification system for the trout slough and signs posted saying that hunting and fishing were only allowable with the permission of the owner....oh, and a bay window, which was my wife's idea.

Jealous