[Curtman]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Khadr lived in Eygpt and Saudi with Al Queda types and other scum. Osama Bin Laden was a family friend. His father was a miltant who had been arrested by the Pakistani's but released after Chretien personally intervened. A worthy cause indeed.

You would think it would be a quick trial, and a lengthy sentence.

[martin14]

Curtman Curtman:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Khadr lived in Eygpt and Saudi with Al Queda types and other scum. Osama Bin Laden was a family friend. His father was a miltant who had been arrested by the Pakistani's but released after Chretien personally intervened. A worthy cause indeed.

You would think it would be a quick trial, and a lengthy sentence.

Only you think that.


I have no need to do that cocksucker a speedy anything.. let him rot.

[Curtman]

martin14 martin14:

Curtman Curtman:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Khadr lived in Eygpt and Saudi with Al Queda types and other scum. Osama Bin Laden was a family friend. His father was a miltant who had been arrested by the Pakistani's but released after Chretien personally intervened. A worthy cause indeed.

You would think it would be a quick trial, and a lengthy sentence.

Only you think that.


I have no need to do that cocksucker a speedy anything.. let him rot.

I had no idea that he was even accused of being homosexual. I don't think that's even illegal.

[Freakinoldguy]

I love it when people get all irate about Canadian Citizens who commit crimes against foreign nationals in foreign countries, not being treated fairly and not being granted "their" rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

By continually bitching whining and moaning about other countries not conducting their judicial systems, customs and regulations according to what these people percieve as the legal way, they actually fail to see the irony of their argument.

Radical Islam and to a lesser extent their hated enemy America is doing the exact same thing as they are. Trying to force the whole world to play by their set of rules and regulations.

So could someone please answer this question for me. When did we as a nation become so pompous that we actually think other countries give a fat rat's ass about our beloved Charter of Rights and Freedoms, little own are willing to listen to our bitching when it isn't followed to the letter?

[BeaverFever]

$1:

So could someone please answer this question for me. When did we as a nation become so pompous that we actually think other countries give a fat rat's ass about our beloved Charter of Rights and Freedoms, little own are willing to listen to our bitching when it isn't followed to the letter?

The bottom line is that regardless of whether we think this guy is deserving of Canadian citizenship or whether the issue deserves Canadian involvement, the ball has been thrown in our court.

Given this fact, we must use the Charter to guide our actions. The court stopped short of demanding repatriation but walked a fine line when it noted that the current situation violates the Charter.

The guy was 15 when he supposedly "murdered" a US soldier in combat. There are questions involving whether it can be called murder when you kill an armed attacker in war, and there is alot of evidence that khadr didnt even throw the grenade in question.

These questions aside, it is interesting that a Canadian officer is now being court-martialed -much to the chagrin of the right-wing- for executing an unarmed and severly wounded Taliban. Hypocricy and double standards abound.

[Bodah]

I've heard the arguements ad nauseam on citizenship , fuck that piece of shit they aren't Canadians, I don't want him back here. I'd be in support of deporting the whole family if possible.

[Zipperfish]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Just curious, did Canada declare war on the United States?

Can the smarm if you want a serious conversation.

$1:

I'll assume that's a no, unless you're living in an alternative universe. So, since Canada and the United States are not at war, what should we do with a Canadian citizen who killed an American soldier in a foreign battlefield?

Lots of options available. Gitmo and torture weren't valid ones.

$1:

Plus, are the Americans complaining? No. We are. Or rather, some Canadians are, usually those who hate the United States in all things. Canadians are the one trying to get him back to Canada and get him out of Gitmo, until we make a choice, the Americans are keeping him.

No, sorry, it's not that I hate the US--more of a an observation of their reactions to their foreign wars. The neo-conservatives, maybe. They seem to be the ones who brought torture back into vogue in the western world, notably with Abu Ghraib, so not too crazy about them. I haven't seen much evidence that the Canadian government is trying to get hm back. Quite the opposite actually.

$1:

If Khadr did this within the United States, he'd be arrested and tried for murder, and none of this would be an issue. Since he did this in Afghanistan, things become more complicated. Is he our responsibility, or the Americans? Is he a POW, an unlawful combatant, or an innocent? In the wrong place at the wrong time?

Relevant questions. I still don't see where it's OK to torture kids, though. I still don't see that as a valid path forward.

[Curtman]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

By continually bitching whining and moaning about other countries not conducting their judicial systems, customs and regulations according to what these people percieve as the legal way, they actually fail to see the irony of their argument.

I see a different irony.. That we are attempting to impose democracy on Afghanistan, and trying to create a government that adheres to our ideals, which we don't adhere to ourselves.

[EyeBrock]

Curtman Curtman:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Khadr lived in Eygpt and Saudi with Al Queda types and other scum. Osama Bin Laden was a family friend. His father was a miltant who had been arrested by the Pakistani's but released after Chretien personally intervened. A worthy cause indeed.

You would think it would be a quick trial, and a lengthy sentence.

Like the 'life' sentence handed out to one of the convicted terrorists from the 'Toronto 18' got this month?

He'll be out in 2 years or so. That's how we deal with terrorists.
It must have them quaking in their sandals.

[commanderkai]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Can the smarm if you want a serious conversation.

Depends, if you cut the emotional, off topic rhetoric, then I will.

$1:

Lots of options available. Gitmo and torture weren't valid ones.

Of course they are valid. He was a non-uniformed combatant, and he does not receive the same treatment or considerations as an actual, uniformed soldier. Ethical? Just? Maybe, maybe not, but that's the reality of the situation.

$1:

No, sorry, it's not that I hate the US--more of a an observation of their reactions to their foreign wars. The neo-conservatives, maybe. They seem to be the ones who brought torture back into vogue in the western world, notably with Abu Ghraib, so not too crazy about them. I haven't seen much evidence that the Canadian government is trying to get hm back. Quite the opposite actually.

So basically you went off topic? Good to hear. Since the Americans aren't "crying" over this specific situation, your observations are moot as of right now. I'm sure you can find a topic or a news article where they are "crying", but this one lacks the criteria.

$1:

Relevant questions. I still don't see where it's OK to torture kids, though. I still don't see that as a valid path forward.

You see him as a kid, I see him as somebody who made a choice to join an organization with the goals of fighting against both Canada, and her allies, which includes the United States. You don't see it as valid, the United States military does.

[Curtman]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Curtman Curtman:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Khadr lived in Eygpt and Saudi with Al Queda types and other scum. Osama Bin Laden was a family friend. His father was a miltant who had been arrested by the Pakistani's but released after Chretien personally intervened. A worthy cause indeed.

You would think it would be a quick trial, and a lengthy sentence.

Like the 'life' sentence handed out to one of the convicted terrorists from the 'Toronto 18' got this month?

He'll be out in 2 years or so. That's how we deal with terrorists.
It must have them quaking in their sandals.

It's not a Canadian trial, its a U.S. military court.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Pathetic. This is what it comes down to. Kill them and you get court martialed. Capture them and you get crucified.

Why don't we just put our guns down over there, have our soldiers take teddy bears and blankets to those poor, down-trodden terrorists, tuck them into their little beddy by's and read them bed-time stories and everything will be alllll better.

[EyeBrock]

It's not a Canadian trial, its a U.S. military court.[/quote]

I have a degree in stating the obvious too.

I was making a comparison to what Khadr (besides getting a hero's welcome from half of Mississauga) could expect to get in the Canadian legal system if he was convicted of murder or a terrorist act.

[Curtman]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Pathetic. This is what it comes down to. Kill them and you get court martialed. Capture them and you get crucified.

Torturing them in jail with no charges brought against them is wrong. That is what happened, and we did nothing about it.

[BeaverFever]

Well, there are questions as to whether a 15-year old son of a terrorist who was rushed off to a terrorist compound in a foreign country really had freedom to particpate in the actions or not.

Then there are questions about whether Omar khadr acutally threw the grenade. Its a suspicious coincedence that he was the only survivor of the battle.

Furthermore, since when is fighting in combat the equivalent of murder? How is it that we can charge somebody who kills one of our troops IN COMBAT with murder, meanwhile, when one of our guys allegedly executes an unarmed wounded combatant its "outrageous?"

The reason that people use to justify this is that "we're the good guys" and "theyr'e bad guys". As we all know, "good guys" can do anything they like and dont have to obey any laws or rules because they're on the side of "good". Meanwhile "bad guys" don't deserve any fair standard of treatment. The problem is that almost everyone in history who's ever fought for anything has thought they were "good guys" and their enemies are "bad guys" therefore exempt from the rules.

The only way to end battle-field executions, torture, etc is to agree that NOBODY ANYWHERE EVER should engage in this activity.

Also, I think its a mistake for all the arm-chair patriots out there to frame this debate in terms of what "the enemy" deserves. Rather, we should ask, what behaviour is worthy of us? Are we torturers and murderers or are we not?

If you were on a jury of someone accused of torturing and murdering another person, does it really matter whether the victim was a good person or a bad person? Torture and murder is torture a murder, period.