[BionicBunny]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

What I would do is simply remove the racial chacrteristics of teh relationships. Inidans are currently "defined" in legislation. If you have a sufficient amount of Indian blood in you, you are a bebeficiary of Act.

However, no other nation on Earth acts like the First Nations. Canada is a nation, but we don't define our citizens by how much Candian blood they have; we don't ask to see thier heritage. To be a member of a First Nation however, is to be racially pure. That cannot stand. First Nations should have control over their "immigration" and "emigration" policies (within the context of Canada).

I don't believe this will work. There are already documented human rights cases of Aboriginals discriminating against their own purely on the fact the person who filed the complaint was not full-blooded.

There are some questions though for you Zipper.

What do you think the result would be if chiefs had power to decide who is First Nations and who is not?

What if something in the Indian Act was changed and anyone who had the tiniest of Abnoriginal blood in them (but more non) were given Aboriginal status? What if you obtained that status by marriage (which has been an issue people are pushing)? Do you think a majority of Aboriginals would turn around and claim "white people" are trying to assimilate them?

[romanP]

The problem with pretty much every single message in this thread is that you all assume that natives are all one people. They aren't. There are many tribes, and they all behave differently. Some are relatively free of problems or are doing everything they can to get rid of the problems in their communities. Others seem to have barely considered tackling their own problems. The only thing that unifies them is the fact that they are treated as second-class citizens in their own country.

You say 'Just get a job", but how does one "just get a job" when one is harassed and treated with murderous intent by police for trying to make money from a legitimate trade?

[Lemmy]

romanP romanP:

The problem with pretty much every single message in this thread is that you all assume that natives are all one people. They aren't. There are many tribes, and they all behave differently. Some are relatively free of problems or are doing everything they can to get rid of the problems in their communities. Others seem to have barely considered tackling their own problems. The only thing that unifies them is the fact that they are treated as second-class citizens in their own country.

You say 'Just get a job", but how does one "just get a job" when one is harassed and treated with murderous intent by police for trying to make money from a legitimate trade?

There's no question, you're absolutely correct that natives come from many communities and have varying obstacles, problems, concerns, etc. But the one thing that all native groups share is special and distinct status from other Canadians. That is the root of their collective problems.

[andyt]

romanP romanP:

You say 'Just get a job", but how does one "just get a job" when one is harassed and treated with murderous intent by police for trying to make money from a legitimate trade?

[ShepherdsDog]

However, no other nation on Earth acts like the First Nations. Canada is a nation, but we don't define our citizens by how much Candian blood they have; we don't ask to see thier heritage. To be a member of a First Nation however, is to be racially pure. That cannot stand. First Nations should have control over their "immigration" and "emigration" policies (within the context of Canada).

Part of the problem is the misuse of the word nation to replace the word reservation when talking about all the different native groups in Canada. With only a few exceptions, most natives didn't see a connection much past clan and tribe. The idea of nationhood can only be loosely applied to those sedentary/semi nomadic native cultures like the Haida, Huron and Iroquois confederacies.

Secondly, the idea of race determining who is native and who isn't, is BS. There are plenty of treaty indians that have 50% and more of their ancestry coming from White Devil Land. When is this going to stop and what percentage of native ancestry must someone have before they can milk the system get treaty rights?

Third. When are we going to stop Third World Bannock Republics from existing within Canada? Fiscal accountability has to be enforced for the benefit of all people on the reserve, not just the Band Council's friends and families.

[OnTheIce]

romanP romanP:

The only thing that unifies them is the fact that they are treated as second-class citizens in their own country.

The only thing that unifies them is there overwhelming ability to blame their own problems on everyone else.

It's not Canada's fault that there's a huge problem with alcohol, crime and poor education.

When you act like second class citizens for decades and can't be bothered to look inward to solve your own problems than you'll be treated like the people that you are. Second class.

[romanP]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

romanP romanP:

The only thing that unifies them is the fact that they are treated as second-class citizens in their own country.

The only thing that unifies them is there overwhelming ability to blame their own problems on everyone else.

It's not Canada's fault that there's a huge problem with alcohol, crime and poor education.

When you act like second class citizens for decades and can't be bothered to look inward to solve your own problems than you'll be treated like the people that you are. Second class.

When you are treated as a second-class citizen, you will act as a second-class citizen too.

It's so easy to point fingers and blame an entire people for having systemic problems when you're a part of the system that caused those problems but have never lived with them yourself.

This is not much different from putting people in concentration camps, away from their resources and culture, and preventing them from working, and then pointing at them and saying "Look how they live in squalor and laziness!"

[OnTheIce]

romanP romanP:

It's so easy to point fingers and blame an entire people for having systemic problems when you're a part of the system that caused those problems but have never lived with them yourself.

This is not much different from putting people in concentration camps, away from their resources and culture, and preventing them from working, and then pointing at them and saying "Look how they live in squalor and laziness!"

I lived on a reserve for 12 years. So let's cut the crap. Concentration camps? That's just ridiculous.

The Canadian public didn't cause alcoholism and poor education among Natives. They did.

Natives choose to live on reserves and most, opt not to integrate with the rest of Canada, expecting everything to be catered to them and their reserves.

That attitude is why Natives are considered second class, IMO.

Natives are unwilling to fix their own problems within the community and place blame everywhere else but with themselves.

If you don't have enough respect for yourself to look inward and fix your own problems you have no right to place the blame at the feet of people that have done a lot to help these communities.

[andyt]

romanP romanP:

This is not much different from putting people in concentration camps, away from their resources and culture, and preventing them from working, and then pointing at them and saying "Look how they live in squalor and laziness!"

Would you please explain just how the fuck we are doing this? How are we preventing them from working? We have special programs just for natives that give them training and jobs. If by concentration camps you mean reserves, well some of them are almost as grim as a concentration camp. But I see no fence around the reserve, no guards, and am aware of no law that says they have to stay on those reserves.

[romanP]

andyt andyt:

romanP romanP:

This is not much different from putting people in concentration camps, away from their resources and culture, and preventing them from working, and then pointing at them and saying "Look how they live in squalor and laziness!"

Would you please explain just how the fuck we are doing this? How are we preventing them from working?

The RCMP regularly harasses some native fisherman for trying to catch fish, and will even go as far as ramming boats and trying to hit people with boats.

$1:

We have special programs just for natives that give them training and jobs.

Why are their own trades not good enough?

$1:

If by concentration camps you mean reserves, well some of them are almost as grim as a concentration camp. But I see no fence around the reserve, no guards, and am aware of no law that says they have to stay on those reserves.

Maybe so, but there is an invisible culture fence that a lot of people don't want to acknowledge. Some cultures simply do not mix when it comes to things like time, education and work. For example, there are some native cultures in which teaching trigonometry is very difficult because of how their culture thinks about the nature of a circle.

[andyt]

romanP romanP:

andyt andyt:

romanP romanP:

This is not much different from putting people in concentration camps, away from their resources and culture, and preventing them from working, and then pointing at them and saying "Look how they live in squalor and laziness!"

Would you please explain just how the fuck we are doing this? How are we preventing them from working?

The RCMP regularly harasses some native fisherman for trying to catch fish, and will even go as far as ramming boats and trying to hit people with boats.

$1:

We have special programs just for natives that give them training and jobs.

Why are their own trades not good enough?

$1:

If by concentration camps you mean reserves, well some of them are almost as grim as a concentration camp. But I see no fence around the reserve, no guards, and am aware of no law that says they have to stay on those reserves.

Maybe so, but there is an invisible culture fence that a lot of people don't want to acknowledge. Some cultures simply do not mix when it comes to things like time, education and work. For example, there are some native cultures in which teaching trigonometry is very difficult because of how their culture thinks about the nature of a circle.

Really. I thought it was the DFO that patrolled the water. If those Natives are fishing illegally, I'm glad they're being harassed, same as any other criminal.

Why are their own trades not good enough? Well it's you that's complaining that they're not allowed to work - what are their own trades and how are they different than anybody else's?

If natives can't get with modern conceptions of time and work, they'll always be fucked. Our wealth is based on it, and if they want the same material standard of living, as they seem to do, they're going to have to get with the program. Do you know how racist your comment is here? There's lots of people of aboriginal ancestry who would hand you your ass if you talked like that to them. I guess you're lost in Avatar land, but remember, that's not real.

[BionicBunny]

romanP romanP:

This is not much different from putting people in concentration camps, away from their resources and culture, and preventing them from working, and then pointing at them and saying "Look how they live in squalor and laziness!"

What type of concentration camps are you reffering to? Are you trying to compare a reserve to the places where Nazis put to death millions of people who were Jewish, gay and physically and mentally challenged? Because if so, I would like to point out that the Jews have made it a point to remember and teach about that horror but never to allow it to stop them from progressing and becoming better people.

$1:

The RCMP regularly harasses some native fisherman for trying to catch fish, and will even go as far as ramming boats and trying to hit people with boats.

I'm calling you on this one. Would you mind providing some links please that are not from a propaganda site?

$1:

Maybe so, but there is an invisible culture fence that a lot of people don't want to acknowledge. Some cultures simply do not mix when it comes to things like time, education and work. For example, there are some native cultures in which teaching trigonometry is very difficult because of how their culture thinks about the nature of a circle.

I really can't explain how wrong this statement is. Are you telling me that because of a certain band's culture, work would be a difficult concept?

[uwish]

Roman, the RCMP harass native fishermen because they are not just subsistence fishing. Drag lines and hauling hundreds or thousands of fish and then selling them is far from family needs

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

There's lots of people of aboriginal ancestry who would hand you your ass if you talked like that to them. I guess you're lost in Avatar land, but remember, that's not real.

One of the reasons he doesn't change his underwear is to prevent reality from biting him on the ass.

[Biblical_Christian]

==Whiteys are sure enjoying the benefits of the Treatys that were written.==Historic TREATIES of the 1700's, or whenever they were Ratified, which are totally legally Binding, I might add.== Ndns need to call it what it is, CRIME ! And deal with it accordingly. If they are being Tampered with !== Or begin the process of ==Termination Claus == That means whatever was ceded it will go back to the Indians. Land, etc,etc..An it... would all be LEGAL, TOO !!==Keep it up Whitey. We will nail your Butt to the WALL !!==