[Brenda]

I asked this before, and I am really curious about it, because durning the last year my kids attented school in The Netherlands, spleling wasn't important...

I think it is one of the most important things to teach kids, so I was wondering, is spelling (or more lack thereof) penalized?

[Mustang1]

Yes...spelling, grammar and English conventions are assessed.

[Lemmy]

Brenda Brenda:

I asked this before, and I am really curious about it, because durning the last year my kids attented school in The Netherlands, spleling wasn't important...

I think it is one of the most important things to teach kids, so I was wondering, is spelling (or more lack thereof) penalized?

Assessment in the Ontario curriculum is over 4 categories: Knowledge & Understanding, Thinking & Inquiry, Application and Communication. Kids' spelling and grammar can be evaluated as part of Communication marks. Most courses in Ontario are 25% each across the categores, but some aren't. Beyond that, all Ontario students must successfully complete a Literacy Test in grade 10.

[Lemmy]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

This is only a trend in some educational circles. Many educators disagree with the current policies and many administrators echo a similar sentiment. Curriculum expectations are constantly in flux and while zeros and late penalties aren't formally forbidden by assessment/evaluation criteria, they could be, unless the public and teachers and other stakeholders make a stink about the inherent issues currently in education.

This "no zero"/"no late" phase will pass (pardon the pun).

While I agree with your general sentiments, especially the practical burdens placed on educators by this trend, I don't see its end coming soon. The separation of curricular outcomes and learning skills/discipline is here to stay. It's even beginning to creep into post-secondary evaluation policies, which is something I certainly hadn't anticipated.

Myself, I don't deduct "late penalties". I will either accept a late assignment and grade it or tell the student I will not accept it. I disagree with the notion that a project is of some arbitrarily lesser value because it wasn't submitted on the "due date".

[Brenda]

But if you don't accept it, it isn't being graded, and thus would it take the average down, right?
(I must admit I like the "sorry, late, don't accept it" better than "okayyy, 2 days late, -10%, week late, -15")

[KorbenDeck]

Mr_Canada Mr_Canada:

I guess I'm the devil's advocate here, but tardiness has little to do with smarts. I understand though the idea of punishment for being late, so I'd feel fine with added assignments, detention, etc. But I feel anything that doesn't directly relate to the intelligence of a student should not be part of the assignments.

Sorry if that pisses you off.

I don't think so, an intelligence student will get assignments done on time.

[Lemmy]

Brenda Brenda:

But if you don't accept it, it isn't being graded, and thus would it take the average down, right?
(I must admit I like the "sorry, late, don't accept it" better than "okayyy, 2 days late, -10%, week late, -15")

Are we talking highschool or post-secondary? If we're talking about highschool, the curriculum isn't geared around percentages. For example, let's say a course has 10 essential outcomes that the student is required demonstrate in order to earn the credit. If a particular student has 98% on his/her assignments for 9 of those outcomes, but fails or fail to complete the assignment on the 10th outcome, the kid is supposed to FAIL the course, even though his mathematical average may be over 90%. It's not as simple as "he did 9 out 10 assignments perfectly, therefore he passes with a 90% average".

[Brenda]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Brenda Brenda:

But if you don't accept it, it isn't being graded, and thus would it take the average down, right?
(I must admit I like the "sorry, late, don't accept it" better than "okayyy, 2 days late, -10%, week late, -15")

Are we talking highschool or post-secondary? If we're talking about highschool, the curriculum isn't geared around percentages. For example, let's say a course has 10 essential outcomes that the student is required demonstrate in order to earn the credit. If a particular student has 98% on his/her assignments for 9 of those outcomes, but fails or fail to complete the assignment on the 10th outcome, the kid is supposed to FAIL the course, even though his mathematical average may be over 90%. It's not as simple as "he did 9 out 10 assignments perfectly, therefore he passes with a 90% average".

Ok. Makes sense. You have to do 10, you do less, you fail. Period.
Should be like that

[Mustang1]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

This is only a trend in some educational circles. Many educators disagree with the current policies and many administrators echo a similar sentiment. Curriculum expectations are constantly in flux and while zeros and late penalties aren't formally forbidden by assessment/evaluation criteria, they could be, unless the public and teachers and other stakeholders make a stink about the inherent issues currently in education.

This "no zero"/"no late" phase will pass (pardon the pun).

While I agree with your general sentiments, especially the practical burdens placed on educators by this trend, I don't see its end coming soon. The separation of curricular outcomes and learning skills/discipline is here to stay. It's even beginning to creep into post-secondary evaluation policies, which is something I certainly hadn't anticipated.

Myself, I don't deduct "late penalties". I will either accept a late assignment and grade it or tell the student I will not accept it. I disagree with the notion that a project is of some arbitrarily lesser value because it wasn't submitted on the "due date".

Well...currently elements of the elementary curriculum are changing - strands are being reduced, for instance and in secondary, expectations are constantly being revamped as evaluation/assessment strategies change including weighting and even those particulars have already undergone modifications.

It's always in flux. Curricular expectations and assessment/evaluation is always separated...the only "new" addition was learning skills. That will likely change as well.

[Lemmy]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

Well...currently elements of the elementary curriculum are changing - strands are being reduced, for instance and in secondary, expectations are constantly being revamped as evaluation/assessment strategies change including weighting and even those particulars have already undergone modifications.

It's always in flux. Curricular expectations and assessment/evaluation is always separated...the only "new" addition was learning skills. That will likely change as well.

I have to admit, I don't know very much about the Elementary curriculum, but you're certainly correct about policy in flux. Everytime Althouse spins out a new PhD in education, teachers gasp.

[Mustang1]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Brenda Brenda:

But if you don't accept it, it isn't being graded, and thus would it take the average down, right?
(I must admit I like the "sorry, late, don't accept it" better than "okayyy, 2 days late, -10%, week late, -15")

Are we talking highschool or post-secondary? If we're talking about highschool, the curriculum isn't geared around percentages. For example, let's say a course has 10 essential outcomes that the student is required demonstrate in order to earn the credit. If a particular student has 98% on his/her assignments for 9 of those outcomes, but fails or fail to complete the assignment on the 10th outcome, the kid is supposed to FAIL the course, even though his mathematical average may be over 90%. It's not as simple as "he did 9 out 10 assignments perfectly, therefore he passes with a 90% average".

That's not accurate. It depends on the evaluation breakdown - certain weights must be allocated for culminating and exams and course. If a student were to fail to meet one aspect of a course expectation, they wouldn't necessary fail. They also would be evaluated on a culminating and exam or final demonstration. That kid, in your scenario, would have an average of over 90% on their course work.

[Lemmy]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

That's not accurate. It depends on the evaluation breakdown - certain weights must be allocated for culminating and exams and course. If a student were to fail to meet one aspect of a course expectation, they wouldn't necessary fail. They also would be evaluated on a culminating and exam or final demonstration. That kid, in your scenario, would have an average of over 90% on their course work.

Not quite. Now you're breaking it down into different types of expectations. Some are "credit jeoprdizing", some may not be. My scenario is accurate, if that particular expectation is credit jeopardizing. In a practical sense, credit jeopardizing usually means a final exam or an independent research essay in a University level course or a culminating project in a tech course, but my scenario was perfectly accurate. Teachers, in that case, enter a mark of 35% on the report card (don't ask me why it's 35%, I don't know why the Ministry chose that number) even though the student's mathematical average may be 90%.

[Mustang1]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Mustang1 Mustang1:

That's not accurate. It depends on the evaluation breakdown - certain weights must be allocated for culminating and exams and course. If a student were to fail to meet one aspect of a course expectation, they wouldn't necessary fail. They also would be evaluated on a culminating and exam or final demonstration. That kid, in your scenario, would have an average of over 90% on their course work.

Not quite. Now you're breaking it down into different types of expectations. Some are "credit jeoprdizing", some may not be. My scenario is accurate, if that particular expectation is credit jeopardizing. In a practical sense, credit jeopardizing usually means a final exam or an independent research essay in a University level course or a culminating project in a tech course, but my scenario was perfectly accurate. Teachers, in that case, enter a mark of 35% on the report card (don't ask me why it's 35%, I don't know why the Ministry chose that number) even though the student's mathematical average may be 90%.

No...that's still not correct. ALL secondary courses are broken down into specific evaluative "buckets". Often the split is 70% course and a combination of culminating activity and examination that equals 30%. That's it. No expectation is "credit jeopardizing", especially in a scenario like you stated - if a student did 9 out 10 course-based assignments, then that mark would stand (minus the incomplete assignment). Period. A further grade would follow on a culminating and exam that would equal 30%. Their credit, depending upon their follow up evaluations would determine their overall mark. In fact, a student can bomb an exam or U level essay (which would likely be a course weight anyway) and still get a credit.

[Lemmy]

Mustang1 Mustang1:

No...that's still not correct. ALL secondary courses are broken down into specific evaluative "buckets". Often the split is 70% course and a combination of culminating activity and examination that equals 30%. That's it. No expectation is "credit jeopardizing", especially in a scenario like you stated - if a student did 9 out 10 course-based assignments, then that mark would stand (minus the incomplete assignment). Period. A further grade would follow on a culminating and exam that would equal 30%. Their credit, depending upon their follow up evaluations would determine their overall mark. In fact, a student can bomb an exam or U level essay (which would likely be a course weight anyway) and still get a credit.

Sorry and respectfully, but you're wrong. There certainly are outcomes which are "essential" and must be demonstated to pass. Now, in practice, a lot of that theory is skirted by classroom teachers, but I'm absolutely certain about what I'm talking about regarding outcomes and strands. I also know lots of teachers who are entering 35% for kids that fail to meet certain key elements of the course.

A kid CAN bomb an assignment and pass. But according to the Ministry documents, they shouldn't.

[ShepherdsDog]

An inability to manage your time and complete projects in the real world results in unemployment. The education system is failing the kids yet again, in preparing them for the real world and real world expectations.