[saturn_656]

Curtman Curtman:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

If Harper can govern like a majority with only a minority of seats, then the fault lies with the opposition who will not keep him in check.

He went on holidays to avoid losing power completely. And subverted our democratic system all the while crying about how unfair it was.

Why isn't the opposition keeping him in check then?

That is their job, is it not?

Why have they not sent him out on his arse in a non confidence vote? I know why, do you?

[Curtman]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Why isn't the opposition keeping him in check then?

That is their job, is it not?

Why have they not sent him out on his arse in a non confidence vote? I know why, do you?

Here we are talking about how the Senate is keeping him in check, and you are asking about why the opposition isn't? I have no idea what is going on in the opposition. The government and the opposition are a source of constant bemusement these days.

Without the senate to keep them in line, we're in big trouble.

The cons are convinced the sky is falling, so they're determined to prop it back up. The opposition is worried about how it's going to look when the sky falls on it.

[Lemmy]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I don't think it's a bad idea to have two Houses. Most functioning democracy's do. If we can make the senate elected I think it will be a good thing.

The senators would have a riding or province to answer to as well as their parties.

A final reading for a bill where the senators were accountable to the electorate can only enhance our democracy.

I guess I'm just more afraid of politicians than you. I'm not resigned to the conclusion that increasing the number in government increases democracy.

A friend of mine decided he was going to rivet an extra plate of aluminium on the bottom of his boat to make it thicker and stronger. I said, "Are you seriously thinking that you'll make your boat more waterproof by drilling into the hull?" I see that idea as adding new holes to something that isn't supposed to have holes in it! That's kinda how I feel about the Senate.

[saturn_656]

Curtman Curtman:

Here we are talking about how the Senate is keeping him in check, and you are asking about why the opposition isn't? I have no idea what is going on in the opposition. The government and the opposition are a source of constant bemusement these days.

Without the senate to keep them in line, we're in big trouble.

The cons are convinced the sky is falling, so they're determined to prop it back up. The opposition is worried about how it's going to look when the sky falls on it.

I wouldn't say the Senate is keeping anyone in check.

I'd call them obstructionist.

[Curtman]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

I wouldn't say the Senate is keeping anyone in check.

I'd call them obstructionist.

Simply by stopping C-15? Or for some other reason?

[saturn_656]

Curtman Curtman:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

I wouldn't say the Senate is keeping anyone in check.

I'd call them obstructionist.

Simply by stopping C-15? Or for some other reason?

They didn't stop Bill C-15, they completely gutted it.

[Curtman]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

They didn't stop Bill C-15, they completely gutted it.

What they did was ensure that the Cons will never vote for it, and even if they do the courts will get rid of it. There's still hope that the government will implode before they get a chance to re submit it and rubber stamp it in next years senate. There's also still hope that no senate will allow it to pass.

Either way, Canadians won't be happy with their new prison state. The Americans sure aren't.

[martin14]

Curtman Curtman:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

They didn't stop Bill C-15, they completely gutted it.

What they did was ensure that the Cons will never vote for it, and even if they do the courts will get rid of it. There's still hope that the government will implode before they get a chance to re submit it and rubber stamp it in next years senate. There's also still hope that no senate will allow it to pass.

Either way, Canadians won't be happy with their new prison state. The Americans sure aren't.

right, we all need our 199 plants.

[gigs]

martin14 martin14:

Curtman Curtman:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

They didn't stop Bill C-15, they completely gutted it.

What they did was ensure that the Cons will never vote for it, and even if they do the courts will get rid of it. There's still hope that the government will implode before they get a chance to re submit it and rubber stamp it in next years senate. There's also still hope that no senate will allow it to pass.

Either way, Canadians won't be happy with their new prison state. The Americans sure aren't.

right, we all need our 199 plants.

It keeps the Manitoba economy booming.

[Curtman]

martin14 martin14:

right, we all need our 199 plants.

The senate increased it to 200 plants. Steve was ready to lock you up for 5.


... Or less if you fit any number of vague "aggrivating factors"

[saturn_656]

Curtman Curtman:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

They didn't stop Bill C-15, they completely gutted it.

What they did was ensure that the Cons will never vote for it, and even if they do the courts will get rid of it. There's still hope that the government will implode before they get a chance to re submit it and rubber stamp it in next years senate. There's also still hope that no senate will allow it to pass.

Either way, Canadians won't be happy with their new prison state. The Americans sure aren't.

Canadians wouldn't even notice the passage of C-15, unless you happen to run a grow-op.

[Curtman]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Canadians wouldn't even notice the passage of C-15, unless you happen to run a grow-op.

They sure will when our prison population doubles.. Then triples.. And when the breadwinner in the family gets hauled off to jail because he grew a couple plants in a closet.

[martin14]

Curtman Curtman:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Canadians wouldn't even notice the passage of C-15, unless you happen to run a grow-op.

They sure will when our prison population doubles.. Then triples.. And when the breadwinner in the family gets hauled off to jail because he grew a couple plants in a closet.

' a couple ' isnt 5, which would be more than enough.

[EyeBrock]

Lemmy Lemmy:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

I don't think it's a bad idea to have two Houses. Most functioning democracy's do. If we can make the senate elected I think it will be a good thing.

The senators would have a riding or province to answer to as well as their parties.

A final reading for a bill where the senators were accountable to the electorate can only enhance our democracy.

I guess I'm just more afraid of politicians than you. I'm not resigned to the conclusion that increasing the number in government increases democracy.

A friend of mine decided he was going to rivet an extra plate of aluminium on the bottom of his boat to make it thicker and stronger. I said, "Are you seriously thinking that you'll make your boat more waterproof by drilling into the hull?" I see that idea as adding new holes to something that isn't supposed to have holes in it! That's kinda how I feel about the Senate.

I think it's worth a go Lemmy. Before we toss it out we should see if an elected and accountable senate would work. I think there is an opportunity here to change the way we do business a little.

If we look at the way they regionalise the senate seats it might encourage more input from the provinces and territories. It would also give senators from Iqaluit and the North some say on the Hill.

[Curtman]

martin14 martin14:

' a couple ' isnt 5, which would be more than enough.

Unless....

$1:

(a) the person used real property that belongs to a third party in committing the offence;


(b) the production constituted a potential security, health or safety hazard to persons under the age of 18 years who were in the location where the offence was committed or in the immediate area;


(c) the production constituted a potential public safety hazard in a residential area; or


(d) the person set or placed a trap, device or other thing that is likely to cause death or bodily harm to another person in the location where the offence was committed or in the immediate area, or permitted such a trap, device or other thing to remain or be placed in that location or area.

Whatever constituting a potential public safety hazard means.. My coffee maker is a potential public safety hazard. Thats why I have fire insurance.