[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Actually, I've never seen much in the way of polls indicating that the majority of Canadians don't believe in AGW. I've never seen any actually,

"Belief" is all over the board, depending how you ask the question, and who you ask it of.

The more important measure may be whether or not Canadians are prepared to act upon it. With that it depends on whose polling.

No that's not true. For instance, I believe AGW. I disagree about most of the proposed policy responses.

[ridenrain]

Probably for much of the same reason that Iggy isn't talking about Asbestos any more.

[Zipperfish]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Oooooh! "Obfuscating" Cool!

.

Thank you! Sta tuned, I'm planning on using "inveigle" tomorrow!

[EyeBrock]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Zip, I can do a poll with the Tory members and Liberal/NDP members right now. It will be plus or minus 5% for a given margin of error on the sample size.

Can you demonstrate what analysis you used to get the 5%.

Myself, I would be ... skeptical of that number..

I think Trevor already demonstrated earlier that this board, unlike the population of Canada, is mostly Conservative.

But the fact remains--if Canadians really believe climate change is bunch of crap, then why is Harper lying about the Conservative position? It makes no sense. If the Conservatives really believed that the majority of Canadians rejected climate change, they would reflect that in their policy in a New York minute. Yet they don't.

On + or -. I was taking the piss. The pollsters alway say that. ZOOM. Over your head mate.

[EyeBrock]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

Oooooh! "Obfuscating" Cool!

.

Thank you! Sta tuned, I'm planning on using "inveigle" tomorrow!

I like people who can use the language. I've got so lazy with my language since I moved here.

[Zipperfish]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

So Harper is lying to keep Quebec happy. How remarkably Liberal of him.

How typically you, man. From a lengthy explanation of multiple points you snag a tiny one, and present it like it's the only one that matters.

The only major disagreement I had with your post was your contention that the majority of people outside Quebec don't believe AGW. I think the polls speak otherwise. Other than that, I thought your post pretty insightful. I'm more than willing to concede that Harper's Conservatives are waffling chiefly to pander to Quebec.

[Bodah]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

OK, so let's say you're correct, the polls are wrong, and in fact, everyone thinks GW is a pile of crap. Then why won't the Conservatives come out and say it? Riddle me that!

I believe that is what is called, in the internet jargon:

GW is big buisness, for government & powerfull people

They are politicians after all, I think it would be safer for Harper to just coast along appearing to be committed in some capacity when it comes to fighting GW, with the hopes that it dies off. Better that than he coming out and saying GW is crap and were doing nothing, I'd like him to say that. But I understand why he isn't. Not safe politically to piss of the climate loonies just yet. I betcha as soon as one does, the rest will soon follow. Then we can look forward to the threat of killer treants in 20 years or whatever its going to be then.

That's politics.

For the record I believe there is GW but its no where near the sky is falling scenario. And I'm not willing to revert to the stone age to combat that.

[Zipperfish]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

On + or -. I was taking the piss. The pollsters alway say that. ZOOM. Over your head mate.

10-4. Thanks for reminding me I'm taking it too seriously! Always appreciated.

[Zipperfish]

Bodah Bodah:

GW is big buisness, for government & powerfull people

They are politicians after all, I think it would be safer for Harper to just coast along appearing to be committed in some capacity when it comes to fighting GW, with the hopes that it dies off. Better that than he coming out and saying GW is crap and were doing nothing, I'd like him to say that. But I understand why he isn't. Not safe politically to piss of the climate loonies just yet. I betcha as soon as one does, the rest will soon follow. Then we can look forward to the threat of killer treants in 20 years or whatever its going to be then.

That's politics.

For the record I believe there is GW but its no where near the sky is falling scenario. And I'm not willing to revert to the stone age to combat that.

Agreed. And I'm with you on the outlook. Actually, I do think it could be bad, but putting in measures that will ramp up energy prices will result in pretty significant negetavie efefcts as well--something AGW proponents don't take into account.

For us it might mean a few extra cents at teh pump. For imp0verished countries it could mean more poverty, disease adn starvation.

[EyeBrock]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Bodah Bodah:

GW is big buisness, for government & powerfull people

They are politicians after all, I think it would be safer for Harper to just coast along appearing to be committed in some capacity when it comes to fighting GW, with the hopes that it dies off. Better that than he coming out and saying GW is crap and were doing nothing, I'd like him to say that. But I understand why he isn't. Not safe politically to piss of the climate loonies just yet. I betcha as soon as one does, the rest will soon follow. Then we can look forward to the threat of killer treants in 20 years or whatever its going to be then.

That's politics.

For the record I believe there is GW but its no where near the sky is falling scenario. And I'm not willing to revert to the stone age to combat that.

Agreed. And I'm with you on the outlook. Actually, I do think it could be bad, but putting in measures that will ramp up energy prices will result in pretty significant negetavie efefcts as well--something AGW proponents don't take into account.

For us it might mean a few extra cents at teh pump. For imp0verished countries it could mean more poverty, disease adn starvation.

Don't they have that already?

[Bodah]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

For us it might mean a few extra cents at teh pump. For imp0verished countries it could mean more poverty, disease adn starvation.

From what I've read based on the desired targets we'd have to reach, it be a lot more than a few extra cents at the pump. Say good bye to your ...



It would have to be classified as illegal, electric cars only plz.

[N_Fiddledog]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

But the fact remains--if Canadians really believe climate change is bunch of crap, then why is Harper lying about the Conservative position? It makes no sense. If the Conservatives really believed that the majority of Canadians rejected climate change, they would reflect that in their policy in a New York minute. Yet they don't.

At this point other power structures are getting priority before the silent majority. First of all there's International pressure, then there's specific American pressure, then there's media pressure, then there's power-brokers or lobbyist pressure. Then there's Quebec. All these agenda driven forces encourage Harper to play politics with his public position, in spite of the opinion of the quiet majority.

Also there's another polling number that's important here. Consistently Climate Change polls at the bottom of the list of issues people are concerned about.

All this will change however once actual measures are called for, and it becomes clear those measures will affect the pocket books, and lifestyles of actual people, as well as the general economy of the country. At that point the quiet majority wakes up.

In America we saw the birth of the tea party, and townhall protest movement in reaction to radical spending, fears of future taxation, and loss of liberty. Climate bills were only part of the cause of the reaction there, of course, but it was a big part, and those guys who have so far gotten involved are just the tip of the iceberg. In Australia members of parliament stepped down from their party, and the party opposition leader was driven out after radical climate measures reached the voting stage. The Australian climate bill was voted down.

We haven't heard from the silent majority in Canada yet, because Harper has been sly enough to prevent radical measures from actually seeing the light of day so far, but hang on, you may hear from them yet.