[Hyack]

Something else to think about.....

Antarctic Ice Melt Would Shift Earth’s Axis, Further Changing Sea Level

$1:

The collapse of an ice sheet in West Antarctica would not only threaten coastal areas of North America and nations in the southern Indian Ocean, but would also cause a shift in the earth’s rotation axis, researchers report in Science.

If the entire West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) collapses and melts, as some scientists feel is likely due to global warming, the earth’s rotation would shift an approximate 500 meters from its current position. Rather than cause a uniform rise in sea level, this would result in a 30 percent greater increase in certain areas—about 21 feet for Washington, D.C., for example, compared with the uniform 16 to 17 feet already predicted. The researchers say the melting would change the balance of the globe in much the same way that tsunamis move huge amounts of water from one area to another [ABC News].

Because the gravitational pull of an ice sheet on the ocean is reduced when it melts, water then moves away from it. The net effect is that the sea level actually falls within 2,000 km of a melting ice sheet, and rises progressively further away from it. If the West Antarctic Ice Sheet collapses, sea level will fall close to the Antarctic and will rise much more than the expected estimate in the northern hemisphere because of this gravitational effect [Science Daily]. In addition the sheer weight of ice is forcing down the land underneath it and having an impact on the Earth’s spin. When the ice is removed up bounces the land and the Earth moves [Nature].

link

[CanadianJeff]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

The science (real science as in published journals of science) doesn't actually point to global cooling at all you know.

What it really points to is that we have waves of heat and cold that tend to fluctuate about the same time in waves every few thousand years. That's why so many scientists examining the temps of the past 100 years concluded we were warming up. Because over the past century we have warmed up.

This idea is often called the Milankovitch cycles. Just google it and you can get loads more then any site I could link to.

However the further they looked back the more they realized it was just a pattern of warming and cooling that has gone on for longer then we have been around on earth meaning it wasn't possible for humans alone to be the cause of the current warming phase.

Basically many scientists panicked when the amount of data they had supported the idea of a doomsday and jumped on board to stop it. Further investigation made them realize they had erred and we get to our current state of people not knowing what to believe.

Part of the problem lies with how quickly the media grabbed hold of the global warming idea and part of the problem lies with that many of these scientists don't want to admit what a HUGE blunder they made with their methods.

In the end the one thing we do know for certain is that regardless of anything people have been predicting doomsday and the end of time since time began for humans. I'm sorry I do realize that someday our sun will burn out but you'll forgive me if I call most everyone who predicts a current days doomsday not to be believed without much more solid evidence.

Sorry global warming. Not biting.

But then it begs the question that (a) since we're emitting so much CO2 into the atmosphere (about a million kg a second), and (b) carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas which radiates in the infrared spectrum, then why isn't it getting warmer?

That to me would be a much more interesting, though unlikely scenario, than global warming. It would be like adding hot water to a cold drink and seeing no increase in temperature.

Maybe what's really happening is either the ozone is absorbing or filtering the C02 into space at which point it won't do a darn thing or we really don't understand just how much C02 we would really need to heat up the whole planet.

We just don't know enough about what goes on up there to really make any kind of speculation. It's not like we can just cut out a chunk of the ozone and put it in a lab since it's surrounded by zero gravity on one side which is very hard to replicate.

I'd say we don't know enough about the ozone to try and deduce what's going on up there. Having a zero gravity environment pushing on one side could cause a number of things to occur. Sadly we have not had much time as a species to study chemical effects in a zero gravity environment.

[DerbyX]

Brenda Brenda:

Every living organism alters the wave forever. Everytime you (or any other animal) throws a rock into the river, it changes the flow...
Nature takes it course, that is why dinosaures aren't around anymore. Or dodo's... Can't blame that on man...

That is like saying asteroids hit the earth everyday so no biggie of one the size of PEI hits us.

Nature does take its course but then just like we can divert a river through artificial means so to can we divert nature.

[Brenda]

Can't stop one of the size of PEI, right?

You know what stuns me about a huge country like Canada? Landfills. EVERYTHING is burried in the ground. We are screaming "recycle!!!" but what do we do? We burry everything in the ground. If you want to make a difference, burn it, filter the gasses you emit, hang a bucket of water above your fire, and you can feed a steam engine. (yeah, I know, symply put )

Seriously though, in the Netherlands, there is no room to burry trash, so everything is either recycled or burnt. What comes out of the pipes of the ovens is clear gas. Steam. Nothing poisonous or dangerous. Why cant we do that here? The landfill here even burries plywood. WHY???

[martin14]

21 feet for Washington DC......



Bring it on !!!

[DerbyX]

No room to bury trash? That's because the entire country is already pure trash anyway.

[Hyack]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Nature takes it course, that is why dinosaures aren't around anymore. Or dodo's... Can't blame that on man

$1:

First seen by Europeans in 1598, the Dodo was extinct shortly after 1640. Mauritius, an island in the Indian Ocean, was its only home. Human activity is to blame for its extinction.

Hunting by sailors and settlers had a significant, harmful impact on its population. The Dodo could not fly, so it was easy to catch, and its large size—males often weighed up to 21 kg (46 lb.) and females could reach 17 kg (37 lb.)—meant that it was a valuable source of food, although perhaps not a taste-favourite.

Survival of the species was also partly undermined by the clearing of its forest habitat for settlement and agriculture. Finally, the pigs, cats, rats, and monkeys that were introduced to the island became the Dodo's first land predators. (The absence of land predators on Mauritius had led to the evolution of their inability to fly).

Today all that remains of the Dodo are bones and some pieces of skin that were salvaged from the head and legs of a 17th-century specimen. These are kept in museum collections.

[Brenda]

DerbyX DerbyX:

No room to bury trash? That's because the entire country is already pure trash anyway.

[DerbyX]

Hyack Hyack:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Nature takes it course, that is why dinosaures aren't around anymore. Or dodo's... Can't blame that on man

$1:

First seen by Europeans in 1598, the Dodo was extinct shortly after 1640. Mauritius, an island in the Indian Ocean, was its only home. Human activity is to blame for its extinction.

Hunting by sailors and settlers had a significant, harmful impact on its population. The Dodo could not fly, so it was easy to catch, and its large size—males often weighed up to 21 kg (46 lb.) and females could reach 17 kg (37 lb.)—meant that it was a valuable source of food, although perhaps not a taste-favourite.

Survival of the species was also partly undermined by the clearing of its forest habitat for settlement and agriculture. Finally, the pigs, cats, rats, and monkeys that were introduced to the island became the Dodo's first land predators. (The absence of land predators on Mauritius had led to the evolution of their inability to fly).

Today all that remains of the Dodo are bones and some pieces of skin that were salvaged from the head and legs of a 17th-century specimen. These are kept in museum collections.

I didn't actually say that. Brenda did.

[Brenda]

Hyack Hyack:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Nature takes it course, that is why dinosaures aren't around anymore. Or dodo's... Can't blame that on man

$1:

First seen by Europeans in 1598, the Dodo was extinct shortly after 1640. Mauritius, an island in the Indian Ocean, was its only home. Human activity is to blame for its extinction.

Hunting by sailors and settlers had a significant, harmful impact on its population. The Dodo could not fly, so it was easy to catch, and its large size—males often weighed up to 21 kg (46 lb.) and females could reach 17 kg (37 lb.)—meant that it was a valuable source of food, although perhaps not a taste-favourite.

Survival of the species was also partly undermined by the clearing of its forest habitat for settlement and agriculture. Finally, the pigs, cats, rats, and monkeys that were introduced to the island became the Dodo's first land predators. (The absence of land predators on Mauritius had led to the evolution of their inability to fly).

Today all that remains of the Dodo are bones and some pieces of skin that were salvaged from the head and legs of a 17th-century specimen. These are kept in museum collections.

Still doesn't explain the dinosaurs

I guess the only way to save the planet, is the extinction of man. Problem solved

Oh, and in Derb's defence, he didn't say that. I did.

[DerbyX]

Dr. Ian Malcolm: God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man. Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs...

Dr. Ellie Sattler: Dinosaurs eat man. Woman inherits the earth...

[Hyack]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Hyack Hyack:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Nature takes it course, that is why dinosaures aren't around anymore. Or dodo's... Can't blame that on man

$1:

First seen by Europeans in 1598, the Dodo was extinct shortly after 1640. Mauritius, an island in the Indian Ocean, was its only home. Human activity is to blame for its extinction.

Hunting by sailors and settlers had a significant, harmful impact on its population. The Dodo could not fly, so it was easy to catch, and its large size—males often weighed up to 21 kg (46 lb.) and females could reach 17 kg (37 lb.)—meant that it was a valuable source of food, although perhaps not a taste-favourite.

Survival of the species was also partly undermined by the clearing of its forest habitat for settlement and agriculture. Finally, the pigs, cats, rats, and monkeys that were introduced to the island became the Dodo's first land predators. (The absence of land predators on Mauritius had led to the evolution of their inability to fly).

Today all that remains of the Dodo are bones and some pieces of skin that were salvaged from the head and legs of a 17th-century specimen. These are kept in museum collections.

I didn't actually say that. Brenda did.

Sorry about that Derby, I'll try to pay better attention in the future.....if there is one after 2012...

[DerbyX]

no problema.

[Zipperfish]

CanadianJeff CanadianJeff:

Maybe what's really happening is either the ozone is absorbing or filtering the C02 into space at which point it won't do a darn thing or we really don't understand just how much C02 we would really need to heat up the whole planet.

We just don't know enough about what goes on up there to really make any kind of speculation. It's not like we can just cut out a chunk of the ozone and put it in a lab since it's surrounded by zero gravity on one side which is very hard to replicate.

I'd say we don't know enough about the ozone to try and deduce what's going on up there. Having a zero gravity environment pushing on one side could cause a number of things to occur. Sadly we have not had much time as a species to study chemical effects in a zero gravity environment.

If the CO2 were escaping to space, then why are measurements of atmospheric CO2 increasing over time? And what is providing the CO2 molecules, and only the CO2 molecules, with the energy required to escape the Earth's gravitational well?

I apply Occam's Razor--i.e. the simplest solution should be assumed--and that, to my mind, means that you would expect an increase in surface temperature given a forcing of carbon dioxide concentrations.

For me, the fishy part is the "climate sensitivity" whihc is the additional warming, on top of the radiative heat transfer, posited by the IPCC. Based on heat transfer equations, doubling CO2 should increase the temperature about 1.1 deg C. However, the IPCC posits an increase of between 1.5 and 4.5 deg C due to positive feedback. That's the part of the IPCC study that I don't buy--mind you, I readily admit that I'm a lot more comfortable with physics than I am with earth sciences.

[Hyack]

Brenda Brenda:

Still doesn't explain the dinosaurs

As for the dinosaurs....Man definitely did not have a hand in their extinction

$1:

One of the most well-known and intriguing theories suggested for dinosaur extinction is the asteroid theory. In the 1980's the father-son team of Luis and Walter Alvarez discovered a layer of iridium in the K-T boundary. Iridium is rare on earth, but abundant in meteorites. The Alvarezs' suggested that a huge asteroid or comet, perhaps miles in diameter, hit the Earth at that time. The result of such an impact would be an enormous explosion that would throw dust clouds into the sky, darkening the planet. Massive forest fires, triggered by the hit, would add smoke to the sky. This would cool the planet causing the climatic changes observed.

A crater, now worn down and partly under the ocean, was found along the Mexican Yucatan Peninsula and its creation coincides nicely with the K-T boundary. NASA scientists estimate that the asteroid that made Chicxulub Crater, as it is now known, would have been about 6 to 12 miles in diameter. The crater is about 130 miles across.

Scientists at the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colorado, have even been able to trace the path of that asteroid back into space. According to their calculations 160 million years ago a collision between a 100-mile-wide asteroid, named Baptistina, and a smaller unnamed asteroid out beyond the orbit of Mars, shattered the larger object and sent pieces of it into the inner solar system. Ninty-five million years after that these pieces encountered earth, ending the dinosaurs' reign.