[Zipperfish]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

Respectfully, no sir. Much more complicated than that. For one thing (one of many many things) the energy we export powers the most populated areas of their eastern seaboard. Total black out is worth a trade war to them? I don't think so. 3rd world for us would mean near apocolypse for them and that's just electricity.

You can bet they'd be screaming for invasion then.

The US doesn't buy maple syrup and tourist items from us. they buy the very elements that keep their industry going. If the border 'closes' (completely) it's 'fubar' time for both of us.

At the end of the day they need what we sell, and while we could sooner or later find others to sell to, they will be waiting a LONG time to find a comparable trading partner so close and convienent. Most nations that have good trading status are simply partners. In the case of the US/Canada it's like conjoined twins. You can't just cut the two apart without causing life threatening problems for either.

The problem with your analogy is the size of the conjoined twins. US trade makes up about 80% of our exports and 50% of our imports. A loss of US export market would cut our GDP by about 30% pretty much instantly. A loss of teh Canadian market would impact the US GDP about 2%. Sure, they'd feel it, but nowhere near as prodfoundly as we would.

[Akhenaten]

$1:

US trade makes up about 80% of our exports

Yes sir. But what are those exports? Like I say, energy for the north east coast -- detroit --- Boston -- chicago and all the industry that depend on it. That's just electricity.

See the problem here, if i may, is that you see 80% exports and rightly think "jeziz how could we do without that?"....but when you realize there are two sides here it changes things.

For example, I may run a gas station - for sake of example the only gas station in the area. I may realize one day that 80% of my sales go to a cab company. Now they can say "screw u I'm not buying your gas" and I would go bankrupt.
...but what would happen to them? No gas to run their business. To get that gas they'd have to export it from some far off place for much much more money. Now what?

It's not as simple as comparing GDP's.

This is what I mean. When you see 80% exports it's not maple syrup or Hudsons Bay blankets (I'm sure you know this - just sayin'). It's resources both natural and refined that they need - can't really live without.

[Zipperfish]

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

$1:

US trade makes up about 80% of our exports

Yes sir. But what are those exports? Like I say, energy for the north east coast -- detroit --- Boston -- chicago and all the industry that depend on it. That's just electricity.

See the problem here, if i may, is that you see 80% exports and rightly think "jeziz how could we do without that?"....but when you realize there are two sides here it changes things.

For example, I may run a gas station - for sake of example the only gas station in the area. I may realize one day that 80% of my sales go to a cab company. Now they can say "screw u I'm not buying your gas" and I would go bankrupt.
...but what would happen to them? No gas to run their business. To get that gas they'd have to export it from some far off place for much much more money. Now what?

It's not as simple as comparing GDP's.

This is what I mean. When you see 80% exports it's not maple syrup or Hudsons Bay blankets (I'm sure you know this - just sayin'). It's resources both natural and refined that they need - can't really live without.

Clearly there would be wide-reaching ramifications to the US and to Canada. My point is that they would be much more keenly felt by Canada, just based on the size of the relative economies. From my point of view anyway.

[Akhenaten]

Would not be fun at all no sir.

[sandorski]

There's no advantage to being "Pro"-American. The US looks after Its' interests and we look after ours. Overall I think the US has been "good" for the World, but that "good" is very blemished. Certainly not clearly "good" enough to not be leery about their intentions.

I'm Pro-Canadian, Pro-"someone else" is not a general State and is only given out on an Issue by Issue basis.

[Proculation]

sandorski sandorski:

There's no advantage to being "Pro"-American. The US looks after Its' interests and we look after ours. Overall I think the US has been "good" for the World, but that "good" is very blemished. Certainly not clearly "good" enough to not be leery about their intentions.

I'm Pro-Canadian, Pro-"someone else" is not a general State and is only given out on an Issue by Issue basis.

I personnaly think that being Pro-American means being pro-Western democracy, pro-Liberty.

[sandorski]

Proculation Proculation:

sandorski sandorski:

There's no advantage to being "Pro"-American. The US looks after Its' interests and we look after ours. Overall I think the US has been "good" for the World, but that "good" is very blemished. Certainly not clearly "good" enough to not be leery about their intentions.

I'm Pro-Canadian, Pro-"someone else" is not a general State and is only given out on an Issue by Issue basis.

I personnaly think that being Pro-American means being pro-Western democracy, pro-Liberty.

Not really, those are vague terms and when Americans espouse them they get called Euro Socialists and worse. The US hasn't been the sole source of Democracy/Liberty since way before any of us were born.

[Proculation]

sandorski sandorski:

Proculation Proculation:

sandorski sandorski:

There's no advantage to being "Pro"-American. The US looks after Its' interests and we look after ours. Overall I think the US has been "good" for the World, but that "good" is very blemished. Certainly not clearly "good" enough to not be leery about their intentions.

I'm Pro-Canadian, Pro-"someone else" is not a general State and is only given out on an Issue by Issue basis.

I personnaly think that being Pro-American means being pro-Western democracy, pro-Liberty.

Not really, those are vague terms and when Americans espouse them they get called Euro Socialists and worse. The US hasn't been the sole source of Democracy/Liberty since way before any of us were born.

Yeah I know they are vague terms. I'm just saying my point of view about that term.

You are right about democracy/liberty. France republicanism came in the 18th century. But American republicanism really built the modern western ideology.

[sandorski]

Proculation Proculation:

sandorski sandorski:

Proculation Proculation:

I personnaly think that being Pro-American means being pro-Western democracy, pro-Liberty.

Not really, those are vague terms and when Americans espouse them they get called Euro Socialists and worse. The US hasn't been the sole source of Democracy/Liberty since way before any of us were born.

Yeah I know they are vague terms. I'm just saying my point of view about that term.

You are right about democracy/liberty. France republicanism came in the 18th century. But American republicanism really built the modern western ideology.

I agree, but Pro/Anti Americanism relates to more Recent Events and not some distant Past. For many, if not most, people though. Now it's "Pro-Democracy" or Pro-"Human Rights", more neutral terms based on the Ideology rather than who started it. Mainly because there are many Players promoting it and the US hasn't been a stalwart supporter of those Ideals outside its' own Borders.

[Bacardi4206]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Bacardi, I chuckled reading your comment indicating your displeasure at Canadians being considered anti-American and then followed up with a litany of reasons why you are anti-American.

Not that you're a racist, mind you, but your complaint is sort of like someone complaining about being called a racist.

While they're wearing a sheet.

And burning a cross.

At a lynching.

Yeah whatever, I hardly see how thinking America isn't a force for good calls to be named Anti-American. It sounds like a excuse in defense of Canadians not thinking America is the shit like Americans think of there country.

It takes a lot to be a force of good in the world. My point was that while America does a lot of good shit (I did say America did do a lot of good). You cannot ignore all the bad shit it does aka all the wars and world policing that causes structural damage, homes lost and casualties and deaths. Americas history of humanitarian aid doesn't wipe that record out.

To be a force of good in the world, you actually have to do a lot more good than you do bad. For America it's about even IMO. There world policing fucks a lot of shit up that there humanitarian aids cannot cancel out.

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Bart, pay no attention to him. Anything political or military he reveals a gross ignorance that borders on idiocy.

Bite me. If I tried to prove something as a fact you may use that a excuse but I was giving my opinion. You will call be a idiot no matter what I say so really your insults aren't valid.

[Proculation]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Bacardi, I chuckled reading your comment indicating your displeasure at Canadians being considered anti-American and then followed up with a litany of reasons why you are anti-American.

Not that you're a racist, mind you, but your complaint is sort of like someone complaining about being called a racist.

While they're wearing a sheet.

And burning a cross.

At a lynching.

Yeah whatever, I hardly see how thinking America isn't a force for good calls to be named Anti-American. It sounds like a excuse in defense of Canadians not thinking America is the shit like Americans think of there country.

It takes a lot to be a force of good in the world. My point was that while America does a lot of good shit (I did say America did do a lot of good). You cannot ignore all the bad shit it does aka all the wars and world policing that causes structural damage, homes lost and casualties and deaths. Americas history of humanitarian aid doesn't wipe that record out.

To be a force of good in the world, you actually have to do a lot more good than you do bad. For America it's about even IMO. There world policing fucks a lot of shit up that there humanitarian aids cannot cancel out.

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Bart, pay no attention to him. Anything political or military he reveals a gross ignorance that borders on idiocy.

Bite me. If I tried to prove something as a fact you may use that a excuse but I was giving my opinion. You will call be a idiot no matter what I say so really your insults aren't valid.

Want it or not, America is like the police of the world. So saying that it is bad, it's like saying the police is bad for doing its job.

[Bacardi4206]

Proculation Proculation:

Want it or not, America is like the police of the world. So saying that it is bad, it's like saying the police is bad for doing its job.

America wants to be the police of the world because it is has the military might to do so. However there policing messes up a ton of shit than it solves. Hence my Team America reference. The South Park guys had the same idea about American World Policing and they were Americans.

As for your police reference, you don't see Canadian cops chasing bank robbers down in America while causing property damage do you? No, because the police force is designed to protect the citizens and fight crime in its OWN territory. American World Policing is like spending billions of dollars and causing millions of infestructure damage in order to catch lets say. A rapist in England.

Every now and again you will have some neighbouring country with a State or Province near by who could use some police, fire dep, backup. Generally they will call whoever is closest and if that be Canadian Police and Fire Dep. Than you may find Canadians cops in America doing there thing or vice versa but they could never do that without being invited.

That doesn't happen regarding America's world policing.

[Bodah]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Akhenaten Akhenaten:

No, not directly but I've met (and read) many Canadians who figure an(other) invasion from the US is imminent or a threat.

I've long been mystified by this particular paranoia amongst some Canadians.

Your not the only one Bart.

[2Cdo]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

2Cdo 2Cdo:

Bart, pay no attention to him. Anything political or military he reveals a gross ignorance that borders on idiocy.

Bite me. If I tried to prove something as a fact you may use that a excuse but I was giving my opinion. You will call be a idiot no matter what I say so really your insults aren't valid.

And your opinion reveals a gross ignorance that borders on idiocy, try to keep up.

[PENATRATOR]

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

Proculation Proculation:

Want it or not, America is like the police of the world. So saying that it is bad, it's like saying the police is bad for doing its job.

America wants to be the police of the world because it is has the military might to do so. However there policing messes up a ton of shit than it solves. Hence my Team America reference. The South Park guys had the same idea about American World Policing and they were Americans.

As for your police reference, you don't see Canadian cops chasing bank robbers down in America while causing property damage do you? No, because the police force is designed to protect the citizens and fight crime in its OWN territory. American World Policing is like spending billions of dollars and causing millions of infestructure damage in order to catch lets say. A rapist in England.

Every now and again you will have some neighbouring country with a State or Province near by who could use some police, fire dep, backup. Generally they will call whoever is closest and if that be Canadian Police and Fire Dep. Than you may find Canadians cops in America doing there thing or vice versa but they could never do that without being invited.

That doesn't happen regarding America's world policing.

Did I read somewhere here that you are currently deployed? If that's the case and the above is what you truly think American intervention overseas compares to then I am curious if what colour the sky is in your world.