[ASLplease]

Oh and you can forget about all those bums on the street, they aren't interested in working. And, contrary to management's opinion, they dont have the skills to replace your 'overpaid' workers.

[Yogi]

[quote="ASLplease"]Yogi, you dont know how to run a business.

[gonavy47]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Yogi Yogi:

Let's say you work for XYZ, manufacturing widgets. The price to the market is a buck per widget. It is what it is!
Now, you and all your co-workers decide to unionize cuz you want higher wages, more holidays, (all paid if ya kin get 'em)! Better hours, full benefits including paid sick-leave, dental, etc. etc. etc....

OK. now the company has reached an agreement with you and given most, if not all you have demanded, cuz if they don't, they know that XYZ Widget Manufacturing Inc., -which 'Grandpa & his 4 sons' started with $75.00 and a lot of sweat, sacrifice and hard work- is gonna go down the tubes because of the impending labor strife that has been a very real threat. But it's only a two year contract, and everyone knows that when the contract expires it's going to be a repeat....repeat...repeat...repeat...

Will I still be able to purchase my much needed widgets for a buck each now? Not bloody likely! Now I gotta raise my prices to my customers cuz the price of widgets went up to cover the union demands. It's a chain-reaction.
Unions and their mostly ridiculous demands, have been the downfall of many companies, resuting in a great number of people being out of a job! No. Unions don't affect me at all!

That's a common fallacy among people that don't understand economics. Price is derived from demand, not supply.

And bankruptcy derives from costs and demands. Most people who are accounting managers know this.

[gonavy47]

ASLplease ASLplease:

Oh and you can forget about all those bums on the street, they aren't interested in working. And, contrary to management's opinion, they dont have the skills to replace your 'overpaid' workers.

It's nice to have a trade and be able to write your own ticket. Please don't assume because of your situation that you have all the answers. If you have never been in a union, what the hell makes you qualified to comment on them? I've been on both sides of the fence. I've seen the blank mentality of union labour, and the dog-eat-dog attitude and back-stabbing in management. I'm lucky. I got the fuck out! I am now independant. But in order to raise my family, I had to put up with both for 25 years. That's quite a long time to get an education. It must be nice to have all the answers by going to trade school. If I had known that, I would have gotten a trade before I quit school at 17, too young and dumb to realize what I was doing. Welcome to the real world.

[Lemmy]

gonavy47 gonavy47:

And bankruptcy derives from costs and demands. Most people who are accounting managers know this.

Bankrupcy can come from many things, mostly poor management. Labour costs, if they're managed correctly, are revenue-neutral. Marginal Revenue Product of Labour theory, if properly applied, ensures this.

[ASLplease]

$1:

If you have never been in a union, what the hell makes you qualified to comment on them?

15 years working in an ISO Quality Management System where arbitrary decisions and discriminatory practises have been replaced with policy and procedure. Unions seek to do the same.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

ASLplease ASLplease:

I have had to sign them, and I've never belonged to a union. Companies love contracts. Banks love contracts. Lawyers love contracts. Car Dealers love contracts. Telephone companies love contracts. Hell, even my local gym loves contracts.

$1:

Unions are just another business taking money from our pockets.

"If they dont agree with you, ya flip'em the bird, and start pounding the pavement" Welcome to the real world!

2 things about this post that are total BS. First off ASL. When you sign a contract with the gym, when that contract expires, do they bully, threaten and essentially disrupt your life or business if you choose NOT to renew with them?? When you sign that contract from a car dealer, do they threaten, bully and otherwise disrupt your life when you've paid off the car and ended the contract? Do they suddenly demand that you pay more money? Do they prevent you from buying your next car elsewhere by threatening you?

As for you second comment, you do realize the same thing applies equally well to unionized bitchers and moaners riiiighttt?? . IF it's just as easy to you for a worker that doesn't like the union to flip em the bird and pound the pavement, then it's just as easy for the unionized worker that doesn't like the management to do the EXACT same thing. Nice double standard ya have there

[gonavy47]

Lemmy Lemmy:

gonavy47 gonavy47:

And bankruptcy derives from costs and demands. Most people who are accounting managers know this.

Bankrupcy can come from many things, mostly poor management. Labour costs, if they're managed correctly, are revenue-neutral. Marginal Revenue Product of Labour theory, if properly applied, ensures this.

Not if you're held hostage by a lengthy strike, then all correct managerial practices go out the door, as does most of your customer base, never to return.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Here is one other area that nobody will touch on when it comes to unions.

Sorry Yogi, I'm gonna steal your XYZ Widgets example for second here lol.

Let's say I've been working for XYZ Widgets for 15 years. I like my job, I make decent money and the boss/owner is a good guy. Then one day, enough brain dead idiots decide to vote in a union. Now, if I don't wanna be a part of that union, I'm not allowed to work there, even though it was the EMPLOYER that hired me 15 years ago, NOT the union. Now please to explain HOW the hell they have the right to decide where I can't work. And don't tell me it doesn't happen cuz it damn well does happen.

[Yogi]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Here is one other area that nobody will touch on when it comes to unions.

Sorry Yogi, I'm gonna steal your XYZ Widgets example for second here lol.

Let's say I've been working for XYZ Widgets for 15 years. I like my job, I make decent money and the boss/owner is a good guy. Then one day, enough brain dead idiots decide to vote in a union. Now, if I don't wanna be a part of that union, I'm not allowed to work there, even though it was the EMPLOYER that hired me 15 years ago, NOT the union. Now please to explain HOW the hell they have the right to decide where I can't work. And don't tell me it doesn't happen cuz it damn well does happen.

[gonavy47]

X 2

[ASLplease]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Here is one other area that nobody will touch on when it comes to unions.

Sorry Yogi, I'm gonna steal your XYZ Widgets example for second here lol.

Let's say I've been working for XYZ Widgets for 15 years. I like my job, I make decent money and the boss/owner is a good guy. Then one day, enough brain dead idiots decide to vote in a union. Now, if I don't wanna be a part of that union, I'm not allowed to work there, even though it was the EMPLOYER that hired me 15 years ago, NOT the union. Now please to explain HOW the hell they have the right to decide where I can't work. And don't tell me it doesn't happen cuz it damn well does happen.

not sure if that happens. In a company that becomes unionized, I believe there may be labour law that allows pre-existing employees to be grand fathered so they are not required to join.

say for instance you are a new hire, and union membership is mandatory...some unions but not all allow you to have your dues donated to a charity of choice if the union membership doesn't sit well with you. Even though you are making a gesture of not wanting to belong to them, in many cases they are still legally bound to defend and represent you if ask them to.

[ASLplease]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

2 things about this post that are total BS. First off ASL. When you sign a contract with the gym, when that contract expires, do they bully, threaten and essentially disrupt your life or business if you choose NOT to renew with them?? When you sign that contract from a car dealer, do they threaten, bully and otherwise disrupt your life when you've paid off the car and ended the contract? Do they suddenly demand that you pay more money? Do they prevent you from buying your next car elsewhere by threatening you?

Thats true, but I'll think of an answer later

$1:

As for you second comment, you do realize the same thing applies equally well to unionized bitchers and moaners riiiighttt?? . IF it's just as easy to you for a worker that doesn't like the union to flip em the bird and pound the pavement, then it's just as easy for the unionized worker that doesn't like the management to do the EXACT same thing. Nice double standard ya have there

uhmmmm.....it was already applied to unionized bitchers, and I was throwing it back out there for show that it applies both ways.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

ASLplease ASLplease:

not sure if that happens. In a company that becomes unionized, I believe there may be labour law that allows pre-existing employees to be grand fathered so they are not required to join.

I know it HAS been that way for many of the public service unions in the past. And it sure has hell happened in the private sector too. It's even happened to teachers and hospital staff(not necessarily medical staff). And even if there is NOW a grandfather clause, what they do still affects you. If they go on strike, what's the point? You still can't go to work. What's the point in being the only teacher showing up for work? There won't be any kids there to teach. Your pay is affected just the same, with the only "comfort" being you might get pogey instead of crappy strike pay.

ASLplease ASLplease:

uhmmmm.....it was already applied to unionized bitchers, and I was throwing it back out there for show that it applies both ways

But don't you see? It doesn't. There's no incentive for a unionized worker to look for a job elsewhere when he has an influential body of people behind him, and the ability to shut a business down 'til demands are met. And in the case of public sector unions, hold the taxpayers hostage in the process, where they have even greater leverage.

You say you are not in a union. So I ask you, if you had issues with your pay or benefits, you talk to the boss/managment right? If they tell you to get stuffed, all you can do is suck it up, or quit and in the process, screw yourself for EI. How adversely will that affect your employer? A temporary inconvenience. But the union can FORCE it's demands and cause serious disruption til they get met.
So no, it doesn't really go both ways.

[Lemmy]

gonavy47 gonavy47:

Not if you're held hostage by a lengthy strike, then all correct managerial practices go out the door, as does most of your customer base, never to return.

Good reason to not have a strike then, isn't it? Unions sure don't want them either. They're not money-making ventures for unionized workers either.