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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:55 pm
 


Good thing I think Paul Martin was better then all of them. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:26 am
 


putz putz:

Well if you have to take the good with the bad: Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, do you want me to list more?


Hitler and Mussolini, etc, were "able"?!?!? Wow. I'd love to see the "able" part illustrated. Not sure what history you're looking at, and Hitler would jumped the "arrogant" designation easily into "messiah complex".

Talk about hyperbole and bad history.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:51 am
 


The biggest mistake will be for Iggy that he started off not listening to the voter. This is a classic stupidity move usually powered by a backroom who can,t stand not being in power , and really do not care about any thing else .


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:06 am
 


Mustang1 Mustang1:
putz putz:

Well if you have to take the good with the bad: Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Pol Pot, Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, do you want me to list more?


Hitler and Mussolini, etc, were "able"?!?!? Wow. I'd love to see the "able" part illustrated. Not sure what history you're looking at, and Hitler would jumped the "arrogant" designation easily into "messiah complex".

Talk about hyperbole and bad history.


Before I dive into this I just want to say that I no way support Hitler or Mussolini.

Hitler- From the background of a poor student with limited potential. Rose to lead his party in 1921, lead a failed coup in 1923, be jailed, be released an rebuild his party, become a dictator by 1933, rebuild the Germany economy/Army/Navy/Air Force, have world powers bowing down to him by standing by as he annexed Austria and Czechoslovakia, invade in 1939 and own most of Europe by the end of 1942.

Mussolini- Injured in WWI, always into politics, became Italian PM in 1922(?), had Italy turned into a police state by 1927, brought Italy out of a recession, mass territorial expansion of Italian lands until the early 40's.

Regardless of how it ended and how horrible both were, both had to be "able" leaders to accomplish what they did.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:07 pm
 


putz putz:

Before I dive into this I just want to say that I no way support Hitler or Mussolini.

Hitler- From the background of a poor student with limited potential. Rose to lead his party in 1921, lead a failed coup in 1923, be jailed, be released an rebuild his party, become a dictator by 1933, rebuild the Germany economy/Army/Navy/Air Force, have world powers bowing down to him by standing by as he annexed Austria and Czechoslovakia, invade in 1939 and own most of Europe by the end of 1942.


And how was he able to realize his Lebensraum? He wasn't able to address his the Judenfrage. He never was able to establish a true Volksgemeinschaft. He wasn't able to control his state without the Gestapo. He wasn't able to solve Germany's economic woes without rearmament, conscription, or slave labor. He wasn't able to establish a European hegemony. He wasn't able to abolish Bolshevism. He wasn't able to hold Europe or stem the Allied tide. Nor was he able to maintain his 1,000 year Reich.

Sounds like he wasn't able to achieve or maintain many of his basic goals, desires or ideological tenets.

$1:
Mussolini- Injured in WWI, always into politics, became Italian PM in 1922(?), had Italy turned into a police state by 1927, brought Italy out of a recession, mass territorial expansion of Italian lands until the early 40's.


And how was he able to reestablish the Roman empire? He wasn't able to persuade his people without a police state. He wasn't able to avoid massive military disasters. He wasn't able to hold power and he wasn't able to dodge a partisan execution or a subsequent hanging from a meat hook


$1:
Regardless of how it ended and how horrible both were, both had to be "able" leaders to accomplish what they did.


Yet, the weren't able to establish or maintain many of their core goals, but were able to leave their respective countries in far worse shape than when they arrived as leaders.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:11 pm
 


I think the bottom line is that arrogance or a lack thereof is no barometer of a leader's worth.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:29 pm
 


Akhenaten Akhenaten:
I think the bottom line is that arrogance or a lack thereof is no barometer of a leader's worth.


The bottom line is take a good long hard look at who's labeling him "arrogant."


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