[N_Fiddledog]

BTW there is one political mind calling for calm in all this. Wanna know who it is? See if you can guess.

"There are many disturbing details in the current bill that Washington is trying to rush through Congress, but we must stick to a discussion of the issues and not get sidetracked by tactics that can be accused of leading to intimidation or harassment...Such tactics diminish our nation’s civil discourse which we need now more than ever because the fine print in this outrageous health care proposal must be understood clearly and not get lost in conscientious voters’ passion to want to make elected officials hear what we are saying. Let’s not give the proponents of nationalized health care any reason to criticize us."

~ Sarah Palin ~

[xerxes]

That's rich coming from the same person who wrote the following:

$1:

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

[N_Fiddledog]

I'm not sure I see how that is suggesting riot, or even unruly misconduct, but I often miss something in the translation between what Palin does or says, and what her critics thought they heard her say, or do.

For example, Palin never said she could see Russia from her house. Tina Fey said that. Palin said you could see Russia from parts of Alaska. And you can.

What I thought I read when I read Palin's post in it's entirety is; based on stuff she's read she worries about where things could lead.

In fact Palin later offered a reading list on articles which led her to have concerns. If you read it, you can see why she might.

It's here.

I notice people paste little talking point quotes from Palin's facebook post, but they never post the whole thing so the quotes can be viewed in their context. What the Hell...let's rectify that.

$1:

As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we’re saying not just no, but hell no!

The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s “death panel” so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their “level of productivity in society,” whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion.

Rep. Michele Bachmann highlighted the Orwellian thinking of the president’s health care advisor, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the brother of the White House chief of staff, in a floor speech to the House of Representatives. I commend her for being a voice for the most precious members of our society, our children and our seniors.

We must step up and engage in this most crucial debate. Nationalizing our health care system is a point of no return for government interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path, there will be no turning back. Ronald Reagan once wrote, “Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth.” Let’s stop and think and make our voices heard before it’s too late.

- Sarah Palin

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=113851103434

So tell me, what part of "stepping up and engaging in debate", or "making your voices heard" is a call to riot?

[N_Fiddledog]

Palin is worried something might happen similar to what's done in Oregon where some care gets bumped down a list.



There's more to it than that though. Apparently there's stuff in the first draft of the bill being considered attaching credence to the possibility Sarah worries about, as well as other things.



Sounds like there might be some hyperbole there, so you can double check that from the giant PDF of the bill if you have a powerful computer (it crashed mine).

http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/ ... 071409.pdf

For example the way I heard it the bill doesn't so much order granny to die as it gives the doctor financial incentives to have an end of life talk with her.

[Scape]

Which has been the same policy for decades now. Living wills have been promoted that is nothing new.

[N_Fiddledog]

No. There's been an option to request information. There's something about a mandate for a talk every 5 years in this one, as well as financial incentives to the doctor to advise something (I'm not sure exactly what). I'm going to have to download that damn thing so I can actually read it.

I know this, Dingell said there's going to be an amendment to that bit. Whether that's true, or not this suggests even one of the bill's most staunch proponents sees something wrong with it.

[Scape]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Show me the one single point being made in that video you consider so overwhelming in absolute fact there can be no argument against it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGY9a7q4N-U#t=7m30s

organized mayhem at town hall meetings‎

$1:

A BROAD STRATEGY: Rep. Pete Sessions (R-TX), chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, has endorsed the strategy of staged protests, telling Politico the days of civil town halls are now "over." In a memo to House Republicans, Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) promised "anger" during the August recess: "Americans' anger will be on full display in the weeks ahead as Members of Congress leave Washington and travel the nation listening to the voices of their constituents." The published memos are similar to talking points being distributed by FreedomWorks that push an anti-health reform assault all summer. Patients United, a front group maintained by AFP, is busing people all over the country to protest health care reform. America's Health Insurance Plans, the trade group and lobbying juggernaut representing the health insurance industry, is also sending staffers to monitor town halls in 30 states. Meanwhile, Conservatives for Patients' Rights (CPR), led bydisgraced hospital executive Rick Scott, is running a national campaign against a public health care option. Yesterday, the group took credit for "helping gin up the sometimes-rowdy outbursts targeting House Dems at town hall meetings around the country, raising questions about their spontaneity." Earlier in the week, a representative of CPR "sent an email to a list serve (called the Tea Party Patriots Health Care Reform Committee) containing a spreadsheet that lists over one hundred congressional town halls from late July into September." And last weekend, CPR announced it will send staff to "confront" lawmakers at town halls and then transition to negative ads.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/25646.html

He's on the record and so is FreedomWorks. This is not a civil town hall this is NOT democracy.

[N_Fiddledog]

So what I requested was...

$1:

Show me the one single point being made in that video you consider so overwhelming in absolute fact there can be no argument against it.

I said that, because there were so many twisted faux facts in the video you posted, I couldn't possibly address them all in a single post.

What you've given here in response is two links to angry rhetoric, and more unsubstantiated claims in a quote, originating from I'm not sure exactly where, because the link you offered doesn't take me there.

So again I ask what is the point you would like to address? Do you want to talk about the John Boehner thing now, or are you going to show me buses full of protesters, or are you saying without Freedom Works there would be no townhall protests.

I'd love to address your claim. Just tell me what it is.

[xerxes]

$1:

So tell me, what part of "stepping up and engaging in debate", or "making your voices heard" is a call to riot?

Of course, that bit isn't it. It's the part where she says Obama's plan will create Death Panels to kill her Down's Syndrome son, that's so wholly unacceptable. By resorting to such egregious hyperbole, she shows she doesn't want to engage in serious debtate. Also, praising Michelle Bachman is also a sign that Palin is out of her mind.

[GreenTiger]

The best thing was can do about Sara Palin is just not listen to her. She was a disastrous during the Presidential campaign, She got intoxicated with the instant fame who is trying to maintain it by being a gadfly opposing anything Obamo wants to change.

Next week it will be something else. She is a complete airhead that is nice to look at that slutty flight attendant look that is until she opens her mouth and demonstrates to every one what a bird brain this on is.

Right now she is out to make money with speaking tours and of course her writing a book. She better write it fast before her celebrity status fade.The faster that comes the better

In the Canadian political world do you have any women who is Sara Palin's equal?

[ridenrain]

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

In the Canadian political world do you have any women who is Sara Palin's equal?

[xerxes]

ridenrain ridenrain:

GreenTiger GreenTiger:

In the Canadian political world do you have any women who is Sara Palin's equal?

I thought you would have gone with Belinda Stronach...

[Scape]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I'd love to address your claim. Just tell me what it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGY9a7q4N-U#t=7m30s

The 1st comment he says on the video I time stamped is you got to let people speak OR THERE IS NO POINT TO THESE EVENTS. Furthermore, the GOP has made plain that their strategy here is not to debate at all but to shut down all discussion. They are on the record stating that and so are these private health insurance front group that cart out thugs to the meetings that only chant and shout jingoism's and say they are going to kill old people and nationalized health care.

That tactic is not democratic, it's thuggery and it paid for by the health industry.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Scape Scape:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

I'd love to address your claim. Just tell me what it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGY9a7q4N-U#t=7m30s

The 1st comment he says on the video I time stamped is you got to let people speak OR THERE IS NO POINT TO THESE EVENTS. Furthermore, the GOP has made plain that their strategy here is not to debate at all but to shut down all discussion. They are on the record stating that and so are these private health insurance front group that cart out thugs to the meetings that only chant and shout jingoism's and say they are going to kill old people and nationalized health care.

That tactic is not democratic, it's thuggery and it paid for by the health industry.

Put some brown shirts on them and.....draw your own parallel

[Scape]

Time to bring facts to the health care debate