[Brenda]

I am Dutch, ALL my neighbours were muslims. AND, I have had a piece of that what you call "muslimphobia". Seriously, try it someday, and then tell me if you didn't feel like you were going to be mugged. That was LONG before 9/11 btw.

If you can tell me not to go to the UAE, and in the same sentence you say: they must be able to wear whatever they want, welcome them, do you really realize what you are saying?

[EyeBrock]

I just don't trust anybody who is overly religious, that includes Catholics and other Christians.

A problem I have too is that many people from Third World countries mix their own cultural backwardness into their religion then try to justify their own ways with holy texts.
The whole niqab/burka thing is purely cultural. The Koran only says that women should dress modestly, and these are rules from the 7th century.

Whabbism and extreme Shia Islam have taken cultural influences from basically medieval cultures, then imposed them as religious edict. Much like the Catholics did in pre-revolutionary France, or crazy anti-abortionists in the US. Or we can look at the extreme conservatism of Victorian England, where women were swimming in full dresses to observe ‘modesty’.

All this stuff just worries me. Overly religious people waving their zeal in front of me. It shows me that religion is their most important influence and that they do not want to be part of a modern society.

[Lemmy]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

All this stuff just worries me. Overly religious people waving their zeal in front of me. It shows me that religion is their most important influence and that they do not want to be part of a modern society.

Excellent points, Eye. I've been reading a lot about the Puritan Massachusetts economy of the 17th and the 18th centuries lately. The religious fundamentalism, and its overflow into the economic system and legal system, nearly destroyed America before it ever got going. The Salem witch trials were only one of hundreds of sensational and disgraceful violations of human dignity borne out of religious fanaticism. The roots of injustice were a widely tangled mess that was perpetuated by scientific closed-mindedness, religious dogma, bloodlust and an "old boys' club" mentality of entitlement. In terms of its potential for destroying society, Puritanism and Islamic fundamentalism are coins of the same realm.

[EyeBrock]

Exactly my point Lemmy. It's not just radical Islam that worries me. Any radical religious groups place their religion before the society they live in.
That's never good and the reason why I'm all for seperation of 'church and state' to put it into the western context.

A crazy Christian is just as bad for our culture and society as a crazy Muslim. We should beware of both.

[martin14]

looks like the French have their way of putting the brakes on both.

[EyeBrock]

Well, that's equitable eh mon ami?

[Gunnair]

Brenda Brenda:

Bacardi4206 Bacardi4206:

It's great France is trying to be moral about Woman's rights but this isn't freedom. People should be allowed to follow there religion and wear reliigous things. That's pretty much like muslims countries disallowing tourists or citizens to wear those necklaces with the cross on them.

$1:

Excuse me, but... in the UAE, I cannot walk on the streets NOT accompanied by a male (not even as a tourist), I am supposed to cover my shoulders and arms, AND I can not be alone in a room with a man that is not my husband. Why is that?

That is their moral code. Agree with it or not, you have no more right to force your views upon them in the UAE as you feel they have to do the same to you in Canada.

You don't have to go to the UAE, by the way, if you don't like how they treat you. Let your lack of tourist dollars speak your mind.

[Brenda]

Same goes for muslims in France, right?

[Gunnair]

Brenda Brenda:

Same goes for muslims in France, right?

Maybe. Not really the point though WRT to your UAE example.

[Brenda]

Of course it is. I get told I have to addapt (addept?) to the UAE. If you want to live in (or want to go to) France, addapt. Simple.

Why should the western world constantly have to addapt to the ancient Middle East?

[Gunnair]

Brenda Brenda:

Of course it is. I get told I have to addapt (addept?) to the UAE. If you want to live in (or want to go to) France, addapt. Simple.

Why should the western world constantly have to addapt to the ancient Middle East?

Actually, my point was that you were complaining about having to adapt in the UAE. Which would mean you were wanting the ancient Middle East to adapt to the western world.

No?

[Brenda]

I am talking about the hypocrisy. They complain they have to adapt, but they do the same, if not worse in their own country.

[EyeBrock]

I agree Brenda, if they don't like the no burka rule, go elsewhere.

Plenty of Islamic countries around the world to go to.

[Lemmy]

When I'm out in public places, I'd like to be able to identify the folks I come in contact wth. When people are dressed so I couldn't identify them, if need be, that makes me nervous. If these folks want to wear whatever-the-fuck at home or at church, FINE. But I can't wear white gloves and a plastic Richard Nixon mask when I do my banking, so neither should they.

[ASLplease]

This is not the direction that I would like to see things go.

I'd like to see policies stay tolerant of Muslim practices.

Then use our tolerance as a means of justification to tell them to go fuck themselves every time one of them suggests that our christian practices are offensive.