[Bodah]

kenmore kenmore:

When Chrétien left we had a huge surplus

Can't disagree with you there because he over-taxed us to the point of surplus in the millions with EI insurance.

[RUEZ]

kenmore kenmore:

Perhaps the liberals would spend during a recession, but they would protect the middle class and the poor. There is nothing wrong with wanting to treat all Canadians from coast to coast equally and esp with EI. Other than supporting big business like GM and Chrysler, harper has not released any money that was promised. And people in Ontario esp who have lost jobs are waiting for EI. its time for harper to go!

There is no reason to believe the Liberals would reform EI, as they are the ones that made it tougher to get in the first place. Isn't if fun for you to blame other parties for your own parties failings?

[Robair]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Robair Robair:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Is is a sign of the times or that our PM and all our Premiere's are incompetent?

Sign of the times. Cutting the GST and increasing spending when the economy was red hot, that's what points out our PMs incompitence.

So how do you explain the rest of the Provinces with different political leadership, all running deficits with the exception of Manitoba?

Sign of the times. Read my post.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Are all these Premieres incompetent too?

Only the ones that cut taxes when the economy is booming while their province is still in debt...

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Would leaving the GST at 7% left us with a balanced budget?

No, but it sure would have been nice to pay down more debt while we could.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

The answer to both is a resounding NO.

NO is the answer to BOTH those three questions??

[Proculation]

You can't compare the 90s to the situation now. Even the US got surpluses in the 90s. It was an economic boom. Chretien et al. lowered the taxes throughout the 90s.

Lowering the GST was more a political move than an economic one. But anyway, bringing it back to 7% would not do a lot since the consommation is already low. People keep money to buy important things like groceries and to pay the rent which is GST-free anyway.

[RUEZ]

kenmore kenmore:

Remember it took Chrétien 14 ya 14 yrs to dig us out of the debt Mulroney left us in.. huge debt... When Chrétien left we had a huge surplus... then ... well we all know who blew that away don't we?

Chretien didn't dig us out of a debt, we still had and do have a huge debt. He and Martin did get rid of the deficit.

[DerbyX]

Bodah Bodah:

kenmore kenmore:

When Chrétien left we had a huge surplus

Can't disagree with you there because he over-taxed us to the point of surplus in the millions with EI insurance.

How could he have over taxed us seeing as he never raised taxes beyond that already in place from Mulroney. Taxes only went down from there.

In addition, if you think Canadians are over taxed try living in Australia or the UK.

[DerbyX]

Proculation Proculation:

You can't compare the 90s to the situation now. Even the US got surpluses in the 90s. It was an economic boom. Chretien et al. lowered the taxes throughout the 90s.

Lowering the GST was more a political move than an economic one. But anyway, bringing it back to 7% would not do a lot since the consommation is already low. People keep money to buy important things like groceries and to pay the rent which is GST-free anyway.

YES, we can compare the 90s to now. The 90s had a recession also. In addition, thanks to the debt Canada was paying a lot more of its tax collected to interest payments. Chretien had his budget problems to deal with but I don't see anybody saying that the Cons would have done the same.

In fact Chretien is blamed to an infinitely greater degree then Harper and he did an infinitely better job.

Agreed on the GST thing and thats part of the problem. Harper choose politically motivated but economically poor choices. Canada was well poised to whether any recession without a massive deficit but thanks to Harper we have this hole of red ink.

[kenmore]

Bodah Bodah:

kenmore kenmore:

When Chrétien left we had a huge surplus

Can't disagree with you there because he over-taxed us to the point of surplus in the millions with EI insurance.

Because he had no choice given the shit mulroney left. And the next government, liberal or NDP will face the same problem.. Best not to elect the torys at all, I mean here we go again!

[Proculation]

The recession was at the beginning of the nineties. The second half when the Liberals were in power was one of the biggest economic boom ever.

[DerbyX]

Proculation Proculation:

The recession was at the beginning of the nineties. The second half when the Liberals were in power was one of the biggest economic boom ever.

Chretien was handed the recession fallout. He inherited a 30+ billion dollar deficit. His good economic times didn't come until he had reigned in spending and eliminated the deficit.

Harper inherited a red hot economy (greater then any Chretien/Martin year) and a sizable surplus. He was also a trained economist and should have known a recession was coming.

Harper isn't at fault for the recession. He is at fault for his actions leading up to it and his actions taking during it.

[OnTheIce]

kenmore kenmore:

Remember it took Chrétien 14 ya 14 yrs to dig us out of the debt Mulroney left us in.. huge debt... When Chrétien left we had a huge surplus... then ... well we all know who blew that away don't we?

And yet, they still left us with more national debt.

P.S. Harper used that surplus to pay down the debt, which saved us millions a year in interest. Same thing Martin did when times were good, funny how it wasn't a problem then.

[EyeBrock]

Iggy wanted to spend lots so Harper capitulated so his govt didn't fall. Come on Libs, what would you guys be doing differently right now? All of us are just following Obama anyway.

Tell me what the Liberal position is on the deficit?

Tell me what the Liberal position is on the 'stimulus' packagage?

Tell me that the Liberals and the NDP were not screaming for the govt to spray cash at GM and Chrysler.

Tell me how different the Tories are from what the Libs would be doing right now.

All this partisanship is really showing cracks. The Libs and the Tories have never been closer on the economy yet the plonkers within the forum beg to differ.

Do you partisans, from either side, think we are all idiots with the memory retention of a shark?

This is all very silly.

[Proculation]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Proculation Proculation:

The recession was at the beginning of the nineties. The second half when the Liberals were in power was one of the biggest economic boom ever.

Chretien was handed the recession fallout. He inherited a 30+ billion dollar deficit. His good economic times didn't come until he had reigned in spending and eliminated the deficit.

Harper inherited a red hot economy (greater then any Chretien/Martin year) and a sizable surplus. He was also a trained economist and should have known a recession was coming.

Harper isn't at fault for the recession. He is at fault for his actions leading up to it and his actions taking during it.

All agreed. But, unlike kenmore says, you cannot compare the hard 80s, the great nineties and the beginning of the 2000s (except for the small recession of 2000-2001) and the big recession we are in now. That's not a partisan thing (ie. liberals are better and conservatives do deficits!!). There's the conjoncture but Harper really screwed up here. Like you say, he is an economist. He's not like that. He did it to keep power. Personnally, I would have continued with the last fall budget. Maybe loose the elections. Look at Dion screwing all up and getting the mess. Take majority this fall.

[DerbyX]

Proculation Proculation:

All agreed. But, unlike kenmore says, you cannot compare the hard 80s, the great nineties and the beginning of the 2000s (except for the small recession of 2000-2001) and the big recession we are in now. That's not a partisan thing (ie. liberals are better and conservatives do deficits!!). There's the conjoncture but Harper really screwed up here. Like you say, he is an economist. He's not like that. He did it to keep power. Personnally, I would have continued with the last fall budget. Maybe loose the elections. Look at Dion screwing all up and getting the mess. Take majority this fall.

So far every PM (except the short-timers) have had good years and recession years. Trudeau had awful recession years. In fact Ziggy used to tell us that the people who went through the 70s energy crisis are the people not panicking today because they went through it and survived.

The same partisan hacks on this forum giving Harper a pass are the same ones who attack Trudeau for his getting the debt ball rolling although he had his reasons also.

The same ones willing to cast equal blame for our current predicament are the same ones who blame the Liberals entirely for every action they took post 93, actions that were essential to prevent Canada from being bankrupt. All I here are con partisan hacks attacking the Libs as military haters, EI stealers, service cutters when its just as fair to say that either the Cons would have done exactly the same as they did or else the Cons would have had Canada over 1 trillion in debt by this time.

At least you are willing to say you would rather have let Dion deal with this problem. At least then you would have been fair to criticize him.

[romanP]

kenmore kenmore:

RUEZ RUEZ:

I think this was the coalition economic plan.

nice try there ruez.. this is a result of and only of the "flawherty and harper " mismanagement of the public fund.. get your head out of your ass and admit blame where it is! THE TORYS

Really? The Liberals were demanding bailouts not too long ago, while the Conservatives were saying nothing needs to be bailed out. Now the Liberals have their bailouts, and they're complaining the it cost more money than the government has, which any imbecile should have known would happen.