[ridenrain]

$1:

You would not have forgiven a Liberal MP had they said it. You certainly considered it a slight against all Chinese immigrants over the MP gaff.

If I'm not mistaken, that was Dion forgetting Canada's history. Something more important than this.

poquas: As I said, I think this is a French Canadian thing and that series of quotes from her proves the same phrase in the same context. Not a racist phrase when she uses it but it is when he uses it?

[DerbyX]

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

poquas poquas:

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

but again, that's not to say that it was in fact a racist statement. If others decide something based on emotion and opinion rather that unbiased by-the-book defining of something coming from the standpoint of the speaker than is he not above blame?

So you would advocate the use of the term nigger even if it was not used in a racist manner?

that's apples and oranges and no I do not and would not condone the use of the word "nigger."

What I would condemn however, is the branding of someone a racist over the use of the term niggardly which although may share a syllable with the other word, has a completely different English origin and an entirely different meaning altogether.

Yes, but "Tar Baby" does have an insulting meaning and doesn't just sound like one.

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

$1:

You would not have forgiven a Liberal MP had they said it. You certainly considered it a slight against all Chinese immigrants over the MP gaff.

If I'm not mistaken, that was Dion forgetting Canada's history. Something more important than this.

poquas: As I said, I think this is a French Canadian thing and that series of quotes from her proves the same phrase in the same context. Not a racist phrase when she uses it but it is when he uses it?

Of course it is.

[maldonsfecht]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Lets certainly not forget the "non-issue" made of the unvalidated accusation of a Liberal van parking in handicapped spaces.

You might also say what goes around comes around.

I am not speaking on that account nor have I made reference to it. If that did in fact transpire, that is physical evidence of wrongdoing...

This case revolves around a commonly used phrase with no ill-intent and the reaction to it and attributing to it of racial qualities that should not be considered valid given the context and history of the term.

[maldonsfecht]

$1:

Yes, but "Tar Baby" does have an insulting meaning and doesn't just sound like one.

That's as may be, but a few bad apples does not ruin the orchard. Meaning the term itself should not be tainted with the racial bias neither originally attributed to the word nor meant in context to what the speaker was referring.

[DerbyX]

It involves a MP and public figure using a word that many consider insulting. He could have choosen his words more carefully. Is he a racist? Probably not. Did he mean to demean people? Probably not either. Does he deserve this attention? Considering the conservatives have set new lows in launching partisan attacks without substance I say yes.

[ridenrain]

Is it racist when Chantal Hebert uses the same phrase in the same way?

[DerbyX]

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

$1:

Yes, but "Tar Baby" does have an insulting meaning and doesn't just sound like one.

That's as may be, but a few bad apples does not ruin the orchard. Meaning the term itself should not be tainted with the racial bias neither originally attributed to the word nor meant in context to what the speaker was referring.

But it did. Lots of words have done that throughout history. Its a consequence of an evolving language.

Why is asking if somebody wants "fried chicken" and/or "watermelon" insulting depending on who you ask? Thats because of the people who were racist brought that meaning into existence.

[poquas]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Is it racist when Chantal Hebert uses the same phrase in the same way?

It's just as bad. Racist or not, there are much better ways to express the point.

I expect better from the people we elect. I don't give a damn what a media hacks says. She has to answer to others.

[DerbyX]

ridenrain ridenrain:

Is it racist when Chantal Hebert uses the same phrase in the same way?

Is it racist when CPC MPs make historical slips?

[maldonsfecht]

DerbyX DerbyX:

It involves a MP and public figure using a word that many consider insulting. He could have choosen his words more carefully. Is he a racist? Probably not. Did he mean to demean people? Probably not either. Does he deserve this attention? Considering the conservatives have set new lows in launching partisan attacks without substance I say yes.

Then are we agreed? He is not racist for having used the term, and in the future he might want to reconsider given the climate of unyielding PC-ness... We can shake hands and get on with our lives?

[DerbyX]

I said "probably not". I'm giving him at least the benefit of the doubt. However as a conservative he deserves to be held by the same standards he and his party hold the others too.

[maldonsfecht]

DerbyX DerbyX:

maldonsfecht maldonsfecht:

$1:

Yes, but "Tar Baby" does have an insulting meaning and doesn't just sound like one.

That's as may be, but a few bad apples does not ruin the orchard. Meaning the term itself should not be tainted with the racial bias neither originally attributed to the word nor meant in context to what the speaker was referring.

But it did. Lots of words have done that throughout history. Its a consequence of an evolving language.

Why is asking if somebody wants "fried chicken" and/or "watermelon" insulting depending on who you ask? Thats because of the people who were racist brought that meaning into existence.

But as I state here... it's the word + context. If I go onto the street and yell WATERMELON!!! I am not a racist, just a little loony... If I ask my black friend if he wants some watermelon, as I am serving it to my other friends, I am not racist...

So, the context it which he spoke + the word's original / non-partisan meaning (a la watermelon as delicious fruit and not stereotype) clears him of intended misdeeds.

[Bodah]

DerbyX DerbyX:

You would not have forgiven a Liberal MP had they said it. You certainly considered it a slight against all Chinese immigrants over the MP gaff.

Iggy's top aide was forgiven for his cat remarks related to chinese food.

I think this was more isnulting than the phrase tar baby which has more than one meaning, his intention wasn't wasn't to use it the derogatory sense. Being how PC everyone is he probably shouldn't of used it though.

I'm pretty sure we know he's not racist, I've met him nice guy. And does alot for the community.

What do people want for him to step down ?

[DerbyX]

Bodah Bodah:

DerbyX DerbyX:

You would not have forgiven a Liberal MP had they said it. You certainly considered it a slight against all Chinese immigrants over the MP gaff.

Iggy's top aide was forgiven for his cat remarks related to chinese food.

I think this was more isnulting than the phrase tar baby which has more than one meaning, his intention wasn't wasn't to use it the derogatory sense. Being how PC everyone is he probably shouldn't of used it though.

I'm pretty sure we know he's not racist, I've met him nice guy. And does alot for the community.

What do people want for him to step down ?

Not by the cons on this forum that freaked out was he?

In addition nobody is saying this guys career is over. They want an apology is all.