[Nuggets]

ziggy ziggy:

Nuggets Nuggets:

Apollo Apollo:

After 3 years of brutally cold winters and relatively cool summers. Along with data that shows there has been no warming of the planet for the past 12 years, at what point do we confirm that global warming is dead?

10 years? 20 years? Give me a number damnit.

When all the glaciers all over the world stop melting so rapidly as they are now, and when the permafrost stops turning into mush.

The permafrost ISNT turning into mush,trust me on this one.

Not even in the summer? I was watching one of David Suzuki's programs and it showed that. Permafrost melting, ground collapsing as mud and flowing into the sea. He showed where the shoreline was receding at a rate of 10 - 15 feet per year in places.

I was doing some research on internet about that, and about the glaciers melting - they're melting all over the world. Tonight on CTV news there was a report about the glaciers melting, esp. those in Glacier National Park in Montana. There used to be 150 glaciers in that park and now there are only 26 glaciers left. Scientists are predicting they'll be gone by 2020 if they continue melting at the rate they are now.

So .... I don't know if we have global warming happening but I do believe we have global climate change happening.

[ziggy]

Check out my picture gallery,i work and lived in the arctic and the permafrost is not going to melt anytime soon,it's thousands of feet deep in places.Dont trust anything Suzuki says,he has an agenda.Polar bears arent drowning and i never once in 3 years saw an environmentalist up there doing any studies on anything so most of what you get off the media is shit dragged off an al gore friendly website.

And the ice at the arctic circle melts every year,like it has been doing for millenia,it's called summer.

[xerxes]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the lodgepole pine the beetles are really into (pun intended) no? I would think the forestry companies would start planting a different type of pine, but I'm guessing there's much more to it than that.

[ziggy]

xerxes xerxes:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the lodgepole pine the beetles are really into (pun intended) no? I would think the forestry companies would start planting a different type of pine, but I'm guessing there's much more to it than that.

Lodgepole are prefferred but any mature pine will do and in heavy infestations they will even hit spruce.Young pine can kick out the beetles because of the high sap flow,thats why their more resistant but in a heavy attack they cant fight off the volume.When I was on the beetlekill program in 78 they were so bad that the sap on your clothes would attract them and they would actually try burrowing under your skin.

Pine beetles have been around since the dino's but not select logging mature pine because of enviro dude tree huggers is what caused the problem.
Mother nature would have solved the problem with a huge forest fire,and then the dominant species of tree would survive.That would have been the fire resistant popular or trembling aspen,resistant to beetles and fires.

Best to let mother nature choose what grows in her forest.She knows best.

[Nuggets]

Ziggy, thanks, I will check out your photo gallery - still figuring out how to navigate my way through this forum (it's so big!) I do know the arctic ice freezes and melts cyclically every year and I don't worry about that. But I do feel concern about all the glaciers melting. If it continues at this rate it will put a big strain on the world, especially in Canada because Canada has more lakes than the rest of the world combined. If other people are lacking fresh water there will be demand on Canada for our water.

And about the pine beetles, I do agree Mother nature would have solved the problem with a huge forest fire. But we don't let that happen any more.

[ziggy]

Glaciers melt,thats what they do in the summer,in some years they increase in size but for the most part their on the way out,to be replaced after the next ice age.I think all this envirofoilerism is brought on by people who cant fathom that their or our tiny little bit of time on this planet is just that.A fart in the wind.

[mtbr]

Nuggets Nuggets:

Not even in the summer? I was watching one of David Suzuki's programs and it showed that. Permafrost melting, ground collapsing as mud and flowing into the sea. He showed where the shoreline was receding at a rate of 10 - 15 feet per year in places.

I was doing some research on internet about that, and about the glaciers melting - they're melting all over the world. Tonight on CTV news there was a report about the glaciers melting, esp. those in Glacier National Park in Montana. There used to be 150 glaciers in that park and now there are only 26 glaciers left. Scientists are predicting they'll be gone by 2020 if they continue melting at the rate they are now.

So .... I don't know if we have global warming happening but I do believe we have global climate change happening.

David Suzuki and the alarmist media, 2 reliable unbiased sources.

[Zipperfish]

ziggy ziggy:

And it has to be early in the season too as after a while the beetles secrete a natural kind of antifreeze in their blood.

The cold has to hit before the larvae mature under the bark and so far the cold is killing beetles at least here.We have been dealing with them since 1978 when BC ignored the problem as they slowly moved into the flathead valley from Montana and then migrated into Alberta.The death of beetle babys today means a forest of mature pine a thousand miles away wont be ravished so bad.They should just harvest mature pine,take away the food source and no more infestations.The environuts kinda caused this with their idea of forestry managment.[/quote]

This is baloney. First of all, the environemntal movement with respect to BC logging practices was barely even around in 1978. Secondly, if you talk to or read stuff by the folks responding to this epidemic, they don't hold any such opinions. They attribute the current pine beetle spread to several winters with no cold spells, dry summers that stressed the trees and fire suppression which created conditions ideal for infestation. Thirdly, the outbreak in the 70's is not the same as the current outbreak; that is to say, population levels of MPB dropped in the late 80s before before rising again dramatically in the late 90s. An animated map of pine beetle infestation over time is show here:

Canadian Forest Service

[ziggy]

The environmental movement was around then,i had to deal with them lots in the castle flathead watershed,Just ask the guys at the now called castle wilderness association.They used to chain themselves to our skidder tires.The beetles were bad in 1978,thats why the Alberta forest service hired over 500 people to work on the beetlekill program.With 2 helicopters flying crews around it was taken very seriously by us not by others,that's why they spread again.

In 1980 they lifted the moratorium on old growth pine in the castle and it was logged before the beetles could infest it.It worked,i can drive to these plots and see the results,not just in the south castle/flathead but also the porcupine hills where they were also very bad in 1978.As this was initial attack mode on the beetles not many people paid attention but it was taken very seriously by the AFS and my father in law who owned a sawmill.

BC ignored the beetles when they first moved up from Montana,thats common knowledge here amongst all of us who worked on the B.K. program.

We were fighting the beetles long before most had heard of them.As it was spring break when the BK program started they hired all the laid off workers from the 3 sawmills in town and LTP's were given out to areas that were not allowed to be logged.

[Sapio]

ridenrain ridenrain:

I am so damned sick and tired of shovelling the same driveway over and over again.

Amen

[Zipperfish]

ziggy ziggy:

The environmental movement was around then,i had to deal with them lots in the castle flathead watershed,Just ask the guys at the now called castle wilderness association.They used to chain themselves to our skidder tires.The beetles were bad in 1978,thats why the Alberta forest service hired over 500 people to work on the beetlekill program.With 2 helicopters flying crews around it was taken very seriously by us not by others,that's why they spread again.

In 1980 they lifted the moratorium on old growth pine in the castle and it was logged before the beetles could infest it.It worked,i can drive to these plots and see the results,not just in the south castle/flathead but also the porcupine hills where they were also very bad in 1978.As this was initial attack mode on the beetles not many people paid attention but it was taken very seriously by the AFS and my father in law who owned a sawmill.

BC ignored the beetles when they first moved up from Montana,thats common knowledge here amongst all of us who worked on the B.K. program.

We were fighting the beetles long before most had heard of them.As it was spring break when the BK program started they hired all the laid off workers from the 3 sawmills in town and LTP's were given out to areas that were not allowed to be logged.

Oh, the environemtnalists were around, no doubt about it. But they did not have the clout to impact forestry practcies to the point whewre it would affect pine beetle infestation. Fire suppression had a way larger impact. And warmer winters and dryer sumemrs as well.

The pine beetles have been moving up from the south since time immemorial. Infestations are cyclical. This one is just worse than any others recorded.

[ziggy]

True. The part you dont see is when they hand out local timber permits,back then the treehuggers had enough influence with the AFS that the blocks were never logged all at once,they were spread out all over the place.Anything in the public view was not given out for logging unless select cutting or just small blocks.Lots of old growth was left because of the treehuggers,especially in rec areas.We would log for 3 months and then move 100 miles and log another 3 months.Usually on top of a mountain or out of the public eye.Lots of old growth was left because of the huggers influence.This was a buffet for the beetles.Fighting fires also did help the beetles,mother nature was taking care of the problem her own way.

All 3 of our sawmills are now demolished,the beetle devasted our logging industry here in town years ago.

I still remember the treehugger from the Alberta Wilderness association that chained and locked himself to our skidder tire,especially his screams when the boss fired up the machine and was going for a drag of logs.