[bootlegga]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

bootlegga bootlegga:

For months, Conservatives have been bitching about Dion and the Liberals abstaining from votes, but when they finally do oppose the Conservatives, suddenly there's a problem?

You can't have your cake and eat it too!

I don't think it's so much the fact that the opposition is standing up for themselves but rather what finally spurred them to do so. No other issue seemed to important enough to move the opposision to act until their public funding was attacked.

Tell you what, we'll write legislation that says you can only get income in one of two methods (no more employment income for you), and then a couple years later, we'll cut one of those methods. Let's see how you react...

This was a political move to hamstring his opponents and nothing else. Of course they were going to go apeshit. Anybody with half a brain could have seen that. The only justification for such a move would have been if it affected all parties equally, which it didn't. It blew up in Harper's face and now he has to face the consequences of his actions.

[EyeBrock]

bootlegga bootlegga:

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

bootlegga bootlegga:

For months, Conservatives have been bitching about Dion and the Liberals abstaining from votes, but when they finally do oppose the Conservatives, suddenly there's a problem?

You can't have your cake and eat it too!

I don't think it's so much the fact that the opposition is standing up for themselves but rather what finally spurred them to do so. No other issue seemed to important enough to move the opposision to act until their public funding was attacked.

Tell you what, we'll write legislation that says you can only get income in one of two methods (no more employment income for you), and then a couple years later, we'll cut one of those methods. Let's see how you react...

This was a political move to hamstring his opponents and nothing else. Of course they were going to go apeshit. Anybody with half a brain could have seen that. The only justification for such a move would have been if it affected all parties equally, which it didn't. It blew up in Harper's face and now he has to face the consequences of his actions.

So how do you justify Layton going to the Bloc to sort a coalition three days after the election?
Face it boots, Harper may have been petty and screwed up but what the opposition is doing is sneaky, slimy, full of lies and without honour, and the public will remember this come the upcoming election.

[AlwaysCanuck]

mtbr mtbr:

AlwaysCanuck AlwaysCanuck:

$1:

the Conservatives were going to form the government, and the NDP and the Bloc were going to vote on each issue one at a time. No guarantees were given and no time frame was given.

Thanks, I didn't know that. I wasn't able to locate anything that documented what the understanding was between the Conservatives and BQ.

Still, Mr. Harper would have required support from the Bloc's 54 seats, as well as the NDP, to hold onto government, so signed agreement or not, I'm not really sure where the distinction is now.

Obviously he had no problem then with the BQ propping up his minority government, so why is this such an issue for him now?

you left out the part of my post with the details.

"Libs 18 posts and NDP 6 posts.
The CCC has even set a time frame, of 30 months between the LIBs/NDP and 18 months for the Bloc."

Sorry re: the details however, these weren't relevant to my question.

Signed agreements or not, how is Mr. Harper being willing to accept the support of the BQ to prop up a minority government when he wanted to replace Martin really all that much different than the current situation? If he was willing to rub elbows with them then, how can he turn around and criticize others for doing the same now?

And unless anyone has a tape of the conversations that went on at the time, we really don't know what the agreement might have been.

At least the signed agreements now are out in the open.

[Scape]

JackCoiner JackCoiner:

Conservatives are getting what they deserve, if they had planted feet to floor, lifted their sorry apathetic asses off their easy chairs - they may have provided a majority for the party. Maybe if the GG allows a dissolution of parliament, they (we) will get a second chance to provide that majority.

Not Conservatives, Canadians. We voted in record low abysmal numbers and we got exactly what we deserved. We complain about our politics being dull and put as a nation little priority into it so we end up now with a minority that wants to run like a majority. Frankly, the Liberals should have done this in 2006 and woke the electorate up but the were too busy licking wounds and the Conservatives were not yet to the point of trying to do electoral reform. However, the Conservatives already did everything they could under a minority last time, more of the same when they were chomping at the bit for a majority wasn't going to do. This was a train wreck that could have been seen from miles away.

We have had more elections in the last 5 years then in the last 15. Another election is not the answer here. Cooler heads must prevail on all sides of the house. Confidence has been lost by the PM and a stay by the GG so they can get a budget out is not going to build bridges. He needs to step down or a coalition will form. I have no doubt Harper will see this as yet another gambit he can use to get a majority but playing the victim from a trap of his own design is not in the best interests of Canada or for the CPC but generated only out of self interest. What he going to do but pout for the next 18 months? Biding his time for the next writ instead of leading a nation. That's not a leader. He forced this hand he has to pay for it.

[EyeBrock]

It's totally different and most Canadians agree. Having other parties support you in the House is way different than actively plotting three whole days after the will of the people was delivered.

Why didn't the NDP campaign that it was seeking a deal with the Bloc?
Why didn't Dion campaign that he was going to link up with the NDP? That I could have accepted.
This is just a sneaky power grab and it can't be packaged as anything else by partisan hacks.

[EyeBrock]

Scape Scape:

JackCoiner JackCoiner:

Conservatives are getting what they deserve, if they had planted feet to floor, lifted their sorry apathetic asses off their easy chairs - they may have provided a majority for the party. Maybe if the GG allows a dissolution of parliament, they (we) will get a second chance to provide that majority.

Not Conservatives, Canadians. We voted in record low abysmal numbers and we got exactly what we deserved. We complain about our politics being dull and put as a nation little priority into it so we end up now with a minority that wants to run like a majority. Frankly, the Liberals should have done this in 2006 and woke the electorate up but the were too busy licking wounds and the Conservatives were not yet to the point of trying to do electoral reform. However, the Conservatives already did everything they could under a minority last time, more of the same when they were chomping at the bit for a majority wasn't going to do. This was a train wreck that could have been seen from miles away.

We have had more elections in the last 5 years then in the last 15. Another election is not the answer here. Cooler heads must prevail on all sides of the house. Confidence has been lost by the PM and a stay by the GG so they can get a budget out is not going to build bridges. He needs to step down or a coalition will form. I have no doubt Harper will see this as yet another gambit he can use to get a majority but playing the victim from a trap of his own design is not in the best interests of Canada or for the CPC but generated only out of self interest. What he going to do but pout for the next 18 months? Biding his time for the next writ instead of leading a nation. That's not a leader. He forced this hand he has to pay for it.

An election is the ONLY answer here. The people should decide on this sneaky double dealing and Harper's abilities as a PM.

He has screwed up and should be held accountable.

The Liberals and NDP are a bunch of liars and should also be held accountable.

Lets vote now! I have a good idea who will win a majority out of it.

[mtbr]

bootlegga bootlegga:

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

bootlegga bootlegga:

For months, Conservatives have been bitching about Dion and the Liberals abstaining from votes, but when they finally do oppose the Conservatives, suddenly there's a problem?

You can't have your cake and eat it too!

I don't think it's so much the fact that the opposition is standing up for themselves but rather what finally spurred them to do so. No other issue seemed to important enough to move the opposision to act until their public funding was attacked.

Tell you what, we'll write legislation that says you can only get income in one of two methods (no more employment income for you), and then a couple years later, we'll cut one of those methods. Let's see how you react...

This was a political move to hamstring his opponents and nothing else. Of course they were going to go apeshit. Anybody with half a brain could have seen that. The only justification for such a move would have been if it affected all parties equally, which it didn't. It blew up in Harper's face and now he has to face the consequences of his actions.

it's okay when the NDP does it

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story ... nding.html

[hurley_108]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

It's totally different and most Canadians agree.

On what do you base your estmation of what "most Canadians" think? There's been no poll done on this matter that I've seen (polls on news web page don't count, no matter what they say - it's a self-selecting sample). You're as polarized as I am. Difference is, I know I'm at the fringe, and that I don't speak for most Canadians.

[bootlegga]

mtbr mtbr:

it's okay when the NDP does it

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story ... nding.html

Piss off Separatist asswipe...

[mtbr]

bootlegga bootlegga:

mtbr mtbr:

it's okay when the NDP does it

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story ... nding.html

Piss off Separatist asswipe...

can't justify one over the other so like usual you resort to name calling

so predictable.

[EyeBrock]

I speak for at least 38% of Canadians and Layton and Dion seem to want that percentage to grow.

A vote is the only way we will see who is right. Do you think the NDP will gain votes out this?

[AlwaysCanuck]

$1:

it's okay when the NDP does it

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story ... nding.html

Yeah, but the NDP government put forward the subsidy and now the Conservative opposition wants it out.

A bit different than the federal situation.

[bootlegga]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

So how do you justify Layton going to the Bloc to sort a coalition three days after the election?
Face it boots, Harper may have been petty and screwed up but what the opposition is doing is sneaky, slimy, full of lies and without honour, and the public will remember this come the upcoming election.

It's called contingency planning, and I'm sure all parties do it. I'm sure Harper was disappointed and did his planning of his own. The only difference I see is that somehow they got into the NDP's planning session and Harper's is secure.

After this monumental fuck-up, I'm not sure Harper wouldn't agree to a deal with the devil to get a majority. All I see are FOUR parties plotting and scheming to fuck each other over. No one is an innocent here. Harper gets additional scorn from me for starting this bruhaha.

His first term in office, Harper wasn't so focussed on power and ruling like a goddamn king. But somewhere along the way, he stopped caring and started craving the absolute power of a majority. That has come back to haunt him...

[mtbr]

AlwaysCanuck AlwaysCanuck:

$1:

it's okay when the NDP does it

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story ... nding.html

Yeah, but the NDP government put forward the subsidy and now the Conservative opposition wants it out.

A bit different than the federal situation.

yeah..but ... bit

3 words say a lot

[Scape]

EyeBrock EyeBrock:

An election is the ONLY answer here. The people should decide on this sneaky double dealing and Harper's abilities as a PM.

He has screwed up and should be held accountable.

The Liberals and NDP are a bunch of liars and should also be held accountable.

Lets vote now! I have a good idea who will win a majority out of it.

So that Harper gets a free pass for his arrogance? Sorry, that's his bed and it's his head that should be called for. instead of calling the opposition double dealing traitors when he did exactly the same thing is naked partisan hackery at its finest. He danced with the Bloc and NDP when it suited him and now he stabbed them in the back instead of maintaining a decorum and confidence in the house. Harper has betrayed his country and his party by putting his career 1st above all else.