[hurley_108]

Here's a different story which explicitly describes deliberate polar bear cannibalism as unusual:

SitNews SitNews:

June 14, 2006
Wednesday


Two polar bears have starved to death and two others were found dead this year in the region where scientists previously discovered unprecedented cannibalism within the population.

Scientists were stunned to discover that two mother polar bears had been stalked, killed and eaten near their Beaufort Sea dens, and that much larger male bears cannibalized a young male during the spring of 2004.

Now, four more dead polar bears have been found in the Alaskan and Canadian regions of the Beaufort Sea, and researchers are getting very worried.

What was initially thought to be a curious event could indicate a radical shift in the behavior of polar bears as they battle dangerous drops in nutrition levels, said the lead author of a report into the 2004 deaths.

Dr. Steven Amstrup, polar bear project leader for the U.S. Geological Survey, Alaska Science Center, said cannibalism is not unheard of in bear populations, but it usually happens after an has animal died for other reasons, such as during a fight over territory.

What sets the 2004 deaths apart is the calculated manner in which the bears appear to have been sniffed out, stalked and killed by large males bears hunting for food.

"These are very rare events. The fact that we observed three in a row is very profound," Amstrup said.

This year, researchers found two females with radio-tags were found dead from starvation in Alaska and the remains of a third.

Canadian researchers found one dead polar bear in their study region.

"We've never seen anything like that before," Amstrup said. "Two of the dead bears were extremely emaciated and appeared to have starved. We don't know what the cause of the starvation was. We're concerned these could be another symptom of changes in the habitat, but we don't know enough yet to know."

The radio-collared bears had not exhibited any unusual roaming habits before their deaths, he said.

While the 2004 deaths could be due to a rogue bear, or could be a regular occurrence not witnessed before, Amstrup said the trigger was more likely nutritional stress caused by dwindling food sources.

"Four of the last five years have been record ice retreats in the polar basin. That gives polar bears the option of staying on land, which isn't too common here, or staying on the sea ice further off shore," he said.

Both options appear to cut access to food, he said. The report states that adult males in the southern Beaufort Sea region were in poorer condition than bears to the north and west. Males concentrate on breeding during spring, as opposed to feeding, and are the first to show adverse effects to large ice retreats.

"Most wildlife respond to changes in the environment in a series of steps with rapid transitions. We can see a gradual change over time in the condition of sea ice. We might not see a gradual change for polar bears. They might reach a threshold and have to respond in a different way. There might be a very major change in the distribution of polar bears," Amstrup said.

Link

\see how I did that link, Bart?

[BartSimpson]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Stirling's 1999 book cites cannibalism as typical behavior. His words, not mine.

Quote the passage that says so.

Read page 137. Google will not allow me to view the book anymore - it says:

$1:

You have reached your viewing limit for this book.

[DerbyX]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Stirling's 1999 book cites cannibalism as typical behavior. His words, not mine.

Cite the passage and reference the behaviour.

Humans engage in cannibalism also, under extreme conditions.

There is a difference between bears killing cubs and bears preying on cubs as the only food source available.

I think Stirling is saying that the number of incidents of cannibalism for food is something he hasn't seen before not that he hasn't noted the behaviour before.

[BartSimpson]

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Here's a different story which explicitly describes deliberate polar bear cannibalism as unusual:

SitNews SitNews:

June 14, 2006
Wednesday


Two polar bears have starved to death and two others were found dead this year in the region where scientists previously discovered unprecedented cannibalism within the population.

Scientists were stunned to discover that two mother polar bears had been stalked, killed and eaten near their Beaufort Sea dens, and that much larger male bears cannibalized a young male during the spring of 2004.

Now, four more dead polar bears have been found in the Alaskan and Canadian regions of the Beaufort Sea, and researchers are getting very worried.

What was initially thought to be a curious event could indicate a radical shift in the behavior of polar bears as they battle dangerous drops in nutrition levels, said the lead author of a report into the 2004 deaths.

Dr. Steven Amstrup, polar bear project leader for the U.S. Geological Survey, Alaska Science Center, said cannibalism is not unheard of in bear populations, but it usually happens after an has animal died for other reasons, such as during a fight over territory.

What sets the 2004 deaths apart is the calculated manner in which the bears appear to have been sniffed out, stalked and killed by large males bears hunting for food.

"These are very rare events. The fact that we observed three in a row is very profound," Amstrup said.

This year, researchers found two females with radio-tags were found dead from starvation in Alaska and the remains of a third.

Canadian researchers found one dead polar bear in their study region.

"We've never seen anything like that before," Amstrup said. "Two of the dead bears were extremely emaciated and appeared to have starved. We don't know what the cause of the starvation was. We're concerned these could be another symptom of changes in the habitat, but we don't know enough yet to know."

The radio-collared bears had not exhibited any unusual roaming habits before their deaths, he said.

While the 2004 deaths could be due to a rogue bear, or could be a regular occurrence not witnessed before, Amstrup said the trigger was more likely nutritional stress caused by dwindling food sources.

"Four of the last five years have been record ice retreats in the polar basin. That gives polar bears the option of staying on land, which isn't too common here, or staying on the sea ice further off shore," he said.

Both options appear to cut access to food, he said. The report states that adult males in the southern Beaufort Sea region were in poorer condition than bears to the north and west. Males concentrate on breeding during spring, as opposed to feeding, and are the first to show adverse effects to large ice retreats.

"Most wildlife respond to changes in the environment in a series of steps with rapid transitions. We can see a gradual change over time in the condition of sea ice. We might not see a gradual change for polar bears. They might reach a threshold and have to respond in a different way. There might be a very major change in the distribution of polar bears," Amstrup said.

Link

\see how I did that link, Bart?

Yes, I see how you did your link. Scape used to lecture me on it, too. I still do not care.

Anyhow, you cite a 2006 article citing ursine cannibalism yet the supposed expert on polar bears "never saw it before" despite documenting it on page 137 of his book, Polar Bears.

Sorry, but all he's doing is taking information that's been known to him for at least nine years and trying to spin it as if this is some wild revelation.

Oh, yeah, he also documented that (GASP!) bears tend to be very hungry, almost starving, after a long winter when food is not available.

So starving polar bears are actually evidence of the absence of warming.

[BartSimpson]

DerbyX DerbyX:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Stirling's 1999 book cites cannibalism as typical behavior. His words, not mine.

Cite the passage and reference the behaviour.

Humans engage in cannibalism also, under extreme conditions.

There is a difference between bears killing cubs and bears preying on cubs as the only food source available.

I think Stirling is saying that the number of incidents of cannibalism for food is something he hasn't seen before not that he hasn't noted the behaviour before.

Page 137 of Polar Bears.

[DerbyX]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DerbyX DerbyX:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Stirling's 1999 book cites cannibalism as typical behavior. His words, not mine.

Cite the passage and reference the behaviour.

Humans engage in cannibalism also, under extreme conditions.

There is a difference between bears killing cubs and bears preying on cubs as the only food source available.

I think Stirling is saying that the number of incidents of cannibalism for food is something he hasn't seen before not that he hasn't noted the behaviour before.

Page 137 of Polar Bears.

I don't know how you are viewing it but it doesn't give me any option whatsoever to view any pages in the book.

Regardless, its quite evident and logical that my explanation is correct and that he is not saying he hasn't noted the behaviour before but rather the scope and nature of it.

Distinguished researchers aren't in the habit of so blatantly contradicting themselves.

[BartSimpson]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Distinguished researchers aren't in the habit of so blatantly contradicting themselves.

Never the less, he did.

[N_Fiddledog]

C'mon now seriously? You guys have heard of Google right, and you're arguing about whether or not incidents of Polar Bear cannibalism exist?

Here's a trick. Anything in the last few years is going to be blamed on global warming. That's a given, so type "Polar Bear cannibalism" into google then go immediately to the latter pages which will be older.

$1:

Cannibalism has been observed various times in polar bears (Ursus maritimus) (Lunn and Stenhouse, 1985; Taylor et al., 1985; Derocher and Taylor, 1994; Derocher and Wiig, 1999).

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-88248183.html

$1:

(Received 29 January 1999; accepted in revised form 9 June 1999)

ABSTRACT. Two instances of infanticide and cannibalism in polar bears (Ursus maritimus) were observed in SE Svalbard, at
Hopen Island. In the first, an adult male killed three young cubs at a den site and consumed one of them. In the second, an adult
male actively pursued, killed, and consumed a dependent yearling. Infanticide of dependent polar bear offspring by adult males
may be more common in Svalbard than in other populations because the population is close to carrying capacity or because
geographic features reduce spatial segregation of age and sex classes.

http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic52-3-307.pdf

[SigPig]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

hurley_108 hurley_108:

Here's a different story which explicitly describes deliberate polar bear cannibalism as unusual:

SitNews SitNews:

June 14, 2006
Wednesday


Two polar bears have starved to death and two others were found dead this year in the region where scientists previously discovered unprecedented cannibalism within the population.

Scientists were stunned to discover that two mother polar bears had been stalked, killed and eaten near their Beaufort Sea dens, and that much larger male bears cannibalized a young male during the spring of 2004.

Now, four more dead polar bears have been found in the Alaskan and Canadian regions of the Beaufort Sea, and researchers are getting very worried.

What was initially thought to be a curious event could indicate a radical shift in the behavior of polar bears as they battle dangerous drops in nutrition levels, said the lead author of a report into the 2004 deaths.

Dr. Steven Amstrup, polar bear project leader for the U.S. Geological Survey, Alaska Science Center, said cannibalism is not unheard of in bear populations, but it usually happens after an has animal died for other reasons, such as during a fight over territory.

What sets the 2004 deaths apart is the calculated manner in which the bears appear to have been sniffed out, stalked and killed by large males bears hunting for food.

"These are very rare events. The fact that we observed three in a row is very profound," Amstrup said.

This year, researchers found two females with radio-tags were found dead from starvation in Alaska and the remains of a third.

Canadian researchers found one dead polar bear in their study region.

"We've never seen anything like that before," Amstrup said. "Two of the dead bears were extremely emaciated and appeared to have starved. We don't know what the cause of the starvation was. We're concerned these could be another symptom of changes in the habitat, but we don't know enough yet to know."

The radio-collared bears had not exhibited any unusual roaming habits before their deaths, he said.

While the 2004 deaths could be due to a rogue bear, or could be a regular occurrence not witnessed before, Amstrup said the trigger was more likely nutritional stress caused by dwindling food sources.

"Four of the last five years have been record ice retreats in the polar basin. That gives polar bears the option of staying on land, which isn't too common here, or staying on the sea ice further off shore," he said.

Both options appear to cut access to food, he said. The report states that adult males in the southern Beaufort Sea region were in poorer condition than bears to the north and west. Males concentrate on breeding during spring, as opposed to feeding, and are the first to show adverse effects to large ice retreats.

"Most wildlife respond to changes in the environment in a series of steps with rapid transitions. We can see a gradual change over time in the condition of sea ice. We might not see a gradual change for polar bears. They might reach a threshold and have to respond in a different way. There might be a very major change in the distribution of polar bears," Amstrup said.

Link

\see how I did that link, Bart?

Yes, I see how you did your link. Scape used to lecture me on it, too. I still do not care.

Anyhow, you cite a 2006 article citing ursine cannibalism yet the supposed expert on polar bears "never saw it before" despite documenting it on page 137 of his book, Polar Bears.

Sorry, but all he's doing is taking information that's been known to him for at least nine years and trying to spin it as if this is some wild revelation.

Oh, yeah, he also documented that (GASP!) bears tend to be very hungry, almost starving, after a long winter when food is not available.

So starving polar bears are actually evidence of the absence of warming.

But that is the thing with polar bears bart, they should be better fed after the winter. They go out on the frozen ice to hunt seals and build up nutirtion to carry them thru till the following winter. It is when the ice melts sooner in the season that they are in trouble because they have less time to hunt. So your statement that they are evidence of the absence of warming shows you know nothing about the behaviour of polar bears and will do anything to proven that the climate is not changing (naturally or otherwise).

[hurley_108]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Yes, I see how you did your link. Scape used to lecture me on it, too. I still do not care.

Jackass. You fuck up the page for everyone when you don't embed a link that's more than the screen width. That you don't care to type a few extra characters, or even use the handy button, just proves what a jerk you are.

$1:

Anyhow, you cite a 2006 article citing ursine cannibalism yet the supposed expert on polar bears "never saw it before" despite documenting it on page 137 of his book, Polar Bears.

Sorry, but all he's doing is taking information that's been known to him for at least nine years and trying to spin it as if this is some wild revelation.

Oh, yeah, he also documented that (GASP!) bears tend to be very hungry, almost starving, after a long winter when food is not available.

So starving polar bears are actually evidence of the absence of warming.

What he hasn't seen before may be the scale of it. Who knows. Not you, not me. He does, but the original CBC article isn't excatly dripping in detail.

All you're doing is twisting a lack of context and detail into some bullshit argument that an expert is contradicting himself.

[BartSimpson]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

C'mon now seriously? You guys have heard of Google right, and you're arguing about whether or not incidents of Polar Bear cannibalism exist?

Here's a trick. Anything in the last few years is going to be blamed on global warming. That's a given, so type "Polar Bear cannibalism" into google then go immediately to the latter pages which will be older.

$1:

Cannibalism has been observed various times in polar bears (Ursus maritimus) (Lunn and Stenhouse, 1985; Taylor et al., 1985; Derocher and Taylor, 1994; Derocher and Wiig, 1999).

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-88248183.html

$1:

(Received 29 January 1999; accepted in revised form 9 June 1999)

ABSTRACT. Two instances of infanticide and cannibalism in polar bears (Ursus maritimus) were observed in SE Svalbard, at
Hopen Island. In the first, an adult male killed three young cubs at a den site and consumed one of them. In the second, an adult
male actively pursued, killed, and consumed a dependent yearling. Infanticide of dependent polar bear offspring by adult males
may be more common in Svalbard than in other populations because the population is close to carrying capacity or because
geographic features reduce spatial segregation of age and sex classes.

http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic52-3-307.pdf

I just got an email citing the same;

$1:

LUNN, N.J., and STENHOUSE, G.B. 1985. An observation of
possible cannibalism by polar bears (Ursus maritimus). Canadian Journal of Zoology 63:1516–1517.

TAYLOR, M., LARSEN, T., and SCHWEINSBURG, R.E. 1985.
Observations of intraspecific aggression and cannibalism in
polar bears (Ursus maritimus). Arctic 38:303– 309.

Again, you'd think a supposed expert would already know this.

[hurley_108]

DerbyX DerbyX:

I don't know how you are viewing it but it doesn't give me any option whatsoever to view any pages in the book.

Me either. He's making it up.

[hurley_108]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

$1:

(Received 29 January 1999; accepted in revised form 9 June 1999)

ABSTRACT. Two instances of infanticide and cannibalism in polar bears (Ursus maritimus) were observed in SE Svalbard, at
Hopen Island. In the first, an adult male killed three young cubs at a den site and consumed one of them. In the second, an adult
male actively pursued, killed, and consumed a dependent yearling. Infanticide of dependent polar bear offspring by adult males
may be more common in Svalbard than in other populations because the population is close to carrying capacity or because
geographic features reduce spatial segregation of age and sex classes.

http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic52-3-307.pdf

I saw that one too. One bear killed three cubs but only ate a small part of one of them. The population also seems to be stressed.

Find me an incident of cannibalism in an unstressed population, and you'll have something.

[DerbyX]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Distinguished researchers aren't in the habit of so blatantly contradicting themselves.

Never the less, he did.

Not unless you can prove it and pointing to a passage that nobody can access isn't proof.

It is quite evident that he is referring to incidents of cannibalism above and beyond what he has experienced before.

You seem so terrified that global warming may be true that you are willing to automatically label any evidence for it as bogus.

[hurley_108]

DerbyX DerbyX:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Distinguished researchers aren't in the habit of so blatantly contradicting themselves.

Never the less, he did.

Not unless you can prove it and pointing to a passage that nobody can access isn't proof.

It is quite evident that he is referring to incidents of cannibalism above and beyond what he has experienced before.

You seem so terrified that global warming may be true that you are willing to automatically label any evidence for it as bogus.

Not only that, but he somehow thinks he can spin any evidence for warming into evidence against it. It's kind of funny, actually....