[DerbyX]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

When Liberals start yip yappin about carbon emissions and how they are going to impose either a tax or carbon cap and trade system on Alberta’s industry but conveniently leave out Ontario’s manufacturing and power generation industries out of the equation how do you think we are going to view that?

I can’t remember exactly what it was but I do remember Chretien slipping up a few times in regards to Alberta, either it was something he said or he gave us the finger or some thing along those lines, maybe some else he can help me out there. Regardless with the memories of PET still fresh action like that by any sitting Prime Minister are pretty much guarantied not to go over to well. The Liberals were gaining some ground here for a while but then actions such as that and the talks of Kyoto pretty much quashed their chances of winning back any favor in this province.

Well, I agree about not following kyoto or installing any measure that unfairly targets one province more then another.

I'd be happy if they took all the money they earmarked for that and simply pais a shitload of students to plant trees and bushes and other carbon sinks all over Canada.

With all due respect your evidence against Chretien is rather non-existent. Ignoring the baseline anti-Liberalism, he did nothing to really piss them off except be a Liberal. Hell, his fiscal policies are perfectly in line with what AB-cons wholeheartedly support. He reduced gov't spending, eliminated the deficit and lowered the debt. All of that were traditional conservative endeavours.

Alot of Albertans like to hold up the past as a shield but what about when its done to them? Suppose those same Albertans using PET as a crutch are faced with every single native using what we did to them the same way (more then they do)?

We can always relocate every single white Albertan back to their homeland if they want to use PET as a reason to reject the Liberals 30 years later.

The Liberals weren't gaining ground until kyoto. Thats just wishful thinking.

The biggest irony of all is all those so-called "freedom for the federal gov't" proponents turn around and say that very same federal gov't has the right to send armed soldiers into a foreign land to do what they want.

If it weren't so tragic it would be sick.

[DerbyX]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

I know this is way off topic but I just had to share it

Horny?

[Wullu]

DerbyX DerbyX:

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

I know this is way off topic but I just had to share it

Horny?

Is that where Spitzer got her number?

[DerbyX]

Wullu Wullu:

Is that where Spitzer got her number?

You get a discount if you are a gov't official. Just claim to be the governor of Nova Scotia.

[dino_bobba_renno]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Well, I agree about not following kyoto or installing any measure that unfairly targets one province more then another.

I'd be happy if they took all the money they earmarked for that and simply pais a shitload of students to plant trees and bushes and other carbon sinks all over Canada.

With all due respect your evidence against Chretien is rather non-existent. Ignoring the baseline anti-Liberalism, he did nothing to really piss them off except be a Liberal. Hell, his fiscal policies are perfectly in line with what AB-cons wholeheartedly support. He reduced gov't spending, eliminated the deficit and lowered the debt. All of that were traditional conservative endeavours.

Alot of Albertans like to hold up the past as a shield but what about when its done to them? Suppose those same Albertans using PET as a crutch are faced with every single native using what we did to them the same way (more then they do)?

We can always relocate every single white Albertan back to their homeland if they want to use PET as a reason to reject the Liberals 30 years later.

The Liberals weren't gaining ground until kyoto. Thats just wishful thinking.

The biggest irony of all is all those so-called "freedom for the federal gov't" proponents turn around and say that very same federal gov't has the right to send armed soldiers into a foreign land to do what they want.

If it weren't so tragic it would be sick.

No there was some kind of dust up, I just can't remember exactly what it was.

And yes they were gaining some ground here it's just that you had Adscam and Kyoto and a few other issues that all hit at the same time. The loss of Anne McLellan hurt the Liberals pretty bad too because she was a great asset for them in this province. I'm not saying they would have taken half the province but there were gaining a few seats.

[DerbyX]

dino_bobba_renno dino_bobba_renno:

DerbyX DerbyX:

Well, I agree about not following kyoto or installing any measure that unfairly targets one province more then another.

I'd be happy if they took all the money they earmarked for that and simply pais a shitload of students to plant trees and bushes and other carbon sinks all over Canada.

With all due respect your evidence against Chretien is rather non-existent. Ignoring the baseline anti-Liberalism, he did nothing to really piss them off except be a Liberal. Hell, his fiscal policies are perfectly in line with what AB-cons wholeheartedly support. He reduced gov't spending, eliminated the deficit and lowered the debt. All of that were traditional conservative endeavours.

Alot of Albertans like to hold up the past as a shield but what about when its done to them? Suppose those same Albertans using PET as a crutch are faced with every single native using what we did to them the same way (more then they do)?

We can always relocate every single white Albertan back to their homeland if they want to use PET as a reason to reject the Liberals 30 years later.

The Liberals weren't gaining ground until kyoto. Thats just wishful thinking.

The biggest irony of all is all those so-called "freedom for the federal gov't" proponents turn around and say that very same federal gov't has the right to send armed soldiers into a foreign land to do what they want.

If it weren't so tragic it would be sick.

No there was some kind of dust up, I just can't remember exactly what it was.

And yes they were gaining some ground here it's just that you had Adscam and Kyoto and a few other issues that all hit at the same time. The loss of Anne McLellan hurt the Liberals pretty bad too because she was a great asset for them in this province. I'm not saying they would have taken half the province but there were gaining a few seats.

Well, i'm not sure about the dust-up so I can't comment until I see what you are taling about. As for gaining ground, well I long ago posted how Alberta voted federally for the last 70 years and quite frankly they have brought Liberal apathy on themselves.

[mtbr]

I remember the Liberal campaign signs in Calgary during the last federal election ,they all read " vote the west in" They were admitting Ottawa's guilt for the previous 13 years.

and they wonder why no one in Alberta trusts them

[grainfedprairieboy]

DerbyX DerbyX:

You have to go back to 1942 to even find a time when the Liberals tied a conservative party for seats and they dominated every election after that. This was over 30 years before the NEP and Chretien and MArtin tried nothning like that yet were hated there anyway.

Correction: Chretien was one of the jr architects of the NEP and Martin employed it's chief creator, Marc Lalonde, to advise the government of the best way of instituting a potential carbon tax on Alberta's oil interests in 2005.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Personally when assholes say things like "free Alberta -- vote Liberal", I say "good riddance".

Encouraging the growth of a separatist movement? How unubercanuckish of you

[DerbyX]

grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:

DerbyX DerbyX:

You have to go back to 1942 to even find a time when the Liberals tied a conservative party for seats and they dominated every election after that. This was over 30 years before the NEP and Chretien and MArtin tried nothning like that yet were hated there anyway.

Correction: Chretien was one of the jr architects of the NEP and Martin employed it's chief creator, Marc Lalonde, to advise the government of the best way of instituting a potential carbon tax on Alberta's oil interests in 2005.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Personally when assholes say things like "free Alberta -- vote Liberal", I say "good riddance".

Encouraging the growth of a separatist movement? How unubercanuckish of you

Can you explain the anti-Liberal hatred for the 35 years previous to the NEP?

[grainfedprairieboy]

DerbyX DerbyX:

grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:

DerbyX DerbyX:

You have to go back to 1942 to even find a time when the Liberals tied a conservative party for seats and they dominated every election after that. This was over 30 years before the NEP and Chretien and MArtin tried nothning like that yet were hated there anyway.

Correction: Chretien was one of the jr architects of the NEP and Martin employed it's chief creator, Marc Lalonde, to advise the government of the best way of instituting a potential carbon tax on Alberta's oil interests in 2005.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Personally when assholes say things like "free Alberta -- vote Liberal", I say "good riddance".

Encouraging the growth of a separatist movement? How unubercanuckish of you

Can you explain the anti-Liberal hatred for the 35 years previous to the NEP?

Well, Albertans feel they have gotten a bit of a raw deal within Confederation once they grew up. That is to say the original framework that laid the foundation for the province occurred when a major city in the region might have 1000 inhabitants. But with mass migration to the region the original rules that understandably placed the region as a defacto colony of central Canada were slow to be lifted.

There are many examples but having to fight for resource rights already possessed by all other provinces (except SK) and not achieving it until the Conservative Albertan Bennett became PM are one in a thousand.

In Alberta sugar from beats became the standard because the government imposed restrictive tariffs or outright bans on sugar from the Carribean or Hawaii that did not come through the sugar brokers of Montreal or Toronto instead of the USA. Today there is still massive sugar beat farming and processing.

As of at least 1990, by federal law, 51% of all dairy products consumed on the prairies must originate from Quebec. Generally, fresh milk is produced hear but all butter, yogurt, cheese, ice cream etc. cannot be if it disrupts the quota.

The point I'm making is that it has been a long standing issue amongst Albertans that central Canada views the region as a colony to be exploited. Though many laws have been changed there are still some outstanding in addition to a government bias that perpetuates the distrust of Ottawa.

As for the Liberals specifically: They are regarded by Albertans as the party most suited to look after the interests of Central Canada. Since those interests are perceived rightly or wrongly to be in conflict with Alberta, you should be able to more clearly understand the historical pre Trudeau grievance.

Trudeau was something different all together. His ideology was in direct conflict with the majority sentiment here and Trudeau himself fostered and elevated distrust of Eastern Canada through a policy of playing groups and regions off each other to strengthen the position of his party in its power base.

Then came the NEP and the rest as they say is history.

[DerbyX]

$1:

Well, Albertans feel they have gotten a bit of a raw deal within Confederation once they grew up. That is to say the original framework that laid the foundation for the province occurred when a major city in the region might have 1000 inhabitants. But with mass migration to the region the original rules that understandably placed the region as a defacto colony of central Canada were slow to be lifted.

Compared to the natives?

Given the situation in Alberta I think you guys have nothing to complain about. All those ralph bucks must be tough.

$1:

There are many examples but having to fight for resource rights already possessed by all other provinces (except SK) and not achieving it until the Conservative Albertan Bennett became PM are one in a thousand.

ignoring the money that went into colonizing and making profitable your province, please enlighten me about the fights. Bear in ming I come from Ontario, the province that gives more and according to the vast majority of Albertans, deserves less political voice then honduras.

Really fair eh?

$1:

In Alberta sugar from beats became the standard because the government imposed restrictive tariffs or outright bans on sugar from the Carribean or Hawaii that did not come through the sugar brokers of Montreal or Toronto instead of the USA. Today there is still massive sugar beat farming and processing.

As of at least 1990, by federal law, 51% of all dairy products consumed on the prairies must originate from Quebec. Generally, fresh milk is produced hear but all butter, yogurt, cheese, ice cream etc. cannot be if it disrupts the quota.

The point I'm making is that it has been a long standing issue amongst Albertans that central Canada views the region as a colony to be exploited. Though many laws have been changed there are still some outstanding in addition to a government bias that perpetuates the distrust of Ottawa.

As for the Liberals specifically: They are regarded by Albertans as the party most suited to look after the interests of Central Canada. Since those interests are perceived rightly or wrongly to be in conflict with Alberta, you should be able to more clearly understand the historical pre Trudeau grievance.

Trudeau was something different all together. His ideology was in direct conflict with the majority sentiment here and Trudeau himself fostered and elevated distrust of Eastern Canada through a policy of playing groups and regions off each other to strengthen the position of his party in its power base.

Then came the NEP and the rest as they say is history.

Its late, i'm tired and I just lost 1500 dollars becasue some dumb asshole couldn't do his job properly.

Alberta got help from Ontario in both needed hay and beef buys. What we got was insults and snide remarks.

You are actually a guilty party for insulting us despite th fact that 99% of Ontarians are struggling with their own lives.

Alberta brings so much on themselves for so called past disgressions that it would be totally fair if the dinosaurs came back and kicked you out.

Englands nice though,.

[grainfedprairieboy]

DerbyX DerbyX:

Compared to the natives?

The slowest of all!

DerbyX DerbyX:

Given the situation in Alberta I think you guys have nothing to complain about. All those ralph bucks must be tough.

Times are good in Alberta but it still does not address all the inequities. We are not asking for more power then Ontario or Quebec, rather an equal say in the Confederation.

As the wealth and power of the west grows so to will the demands for more equality within the Confederation rather then a lethargic fat cat compliance you think is more befitting.

DerbyX DerbyX:

ignoring the money that went into colonizing and making profitable your province, please enlighten me about the fights.

Its easy to ignore the money as there really was none that was not invested with out a clear profit objective. But start with former Liberal MP David Kilgours website and read the article he wrote on the origins of western alienation.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Bear in ming I come from Ontario, the province that gives more and according to the vast majority of Albertans, deserves less political voice then honduras. Really fair eh?

And where is this poll? I've never heard anything like that. In fact, it is the opposite. We believe that Ontario should have a larger number of seats in the House of Commons based on proportional representation. However, are greatest irk is that the Senate reform is routinely blocked by Ontario and Quebec who are not interested in diminishing their power base and being subject to provincial equality.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Really fair eh? Its late, i'm tired and I just lost 1500 dollars becasue some dumb asshole couldn't do his job properly.

I know the feeling.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Alberta got help from Ontario in both needed hay and beef buys. What we got was insults and snide remarks.

In Alberta's darkest hour in the depths of the Great Depression both corporate Ontario (banks) and the Federal government refused to provide loans or guarantees of loans to keep Alberta from going bankrupt. The province, having exhausted all avenues within Canada was bailed out by Chase Manhatten Bank.

The Depression impacted the prairies far more then any other region of Canada and we never forgot the generosity of Maritimers sending fruits, vegtables and dried fish. In fact, about 15 years ago farmers were milling their own grain into pancake batter and sending it to the maritimes to alleviate the economic pressures of a dying fishery.

During the drought we appreciated the efforts of individual farmers in Ontario to donate hay and even though it was only a token gesture of solidarity, they were as dismayed and frustrated as us by the barriers to transportation imposed by the then Liberal government.

DerbyX DerbyX:

You are actually a guilty party for insulting us despite th fact that 99% of Ontarians are struggling with their own lives.

You are a guilty for voting for a party you know is hostile to the region.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Alberta brings so much on themselves for so called past disgressions that it would be totally fair if the dinosaurs came back and kicked you out.

Englands nice though,.[/quote]

If you believe bringing it on ourselves is wrought by refusing to support a party that wishes to subjugate us then you have a funny idea of provincial equality. It's kinda like the women who is beaten by her husband and told she brings it on herself.

[mixedfarmer]

There is no need for a tax or any money being taken in by the government to reduce co2. This is just a myth to rob people of income.

[ziggy]

DerbyX DerbyX:

grainfedprairieboy grainfedprairieboy:

DerbyX DerbyX:

You have to go back to 1942 to even find a time when the Liberals tied a conservative party for seats and they dominated every election after that. This was over 30 years before the NEP and Chretien and MArtin tried nothning like that yet were hated there anyway.

Correction: Chretien was one of the jr architects of the NEP and Martin employed it's chief creator, Marc Lalonde, to advise the government of the best way of instituting a potential carbon tax on Alberta's oil interests in 2005.

DerbyX DerbyX:

Personally when assholes say things like "free Alberta -- vote Liberal", I say "good riddance".

Encouraging the growth of a separatist movement? How unubercanuckish of you

Can you explain the anti-Liberal hatred for the 35 years previous to the NEP?

You mean like when PET came to our little town and the lions club had a huge bbq? that apathy? Before he gave us the finger he wasnt exactly hated in the west Derby.

[ziggy]

mixedfarmer mixedfarmer:

There is no need for a tax or any money being taken in by the government to reduce co2. This is just a myth to rob people of income.

Agreed,I wonder if Dion has Moe Strong on as an advisor.