[Freakinoldguy]

andyt andyt:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

andyt andyt:

So if the first few years of your life were hell - give it enough time and you're golden? You may want to review that theory with psychologists.

But not all of these guys are even first generation, ie they never lived in the hell hole. Still, a sick meme like ISIS or jihad can worm itself into somebody's brain who's already sick and they use that to structure their acting out around. They'd still act out without jihad, just call it something else.

Maybe you've noticed the US has lots of native born with mental health issues who also act out. They just use a different story to base their actions on.

And of course you're getting your news preselected here by your fellow foamers and the media they read. Only Muslims acting out make the grade.

So, every murderous, Muslim Jihadi thug living in places like Great Britain is the direct result of a bad experience in some other shithole during childhood and the ones that aren't, are just a few bad apples that ISIS managed to brainwash from afar?

You're going to have to do alot better than that to explain away this number of "bad apples" with your denier psycho babble.

$1:

MI5 and police are watching more than 3,000 homegrown terror suspects willing to attack on British soil
Head of MI5 warns of unprecedented threat from homegrown jihadis
3,000 men and women, mainly in their teens, are being watched in UK
Andrew Parker said six terror plots alone foiled at home in the past year
NHS playing role in identifying people at risk of being radicalised

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -soil.html

Nice twist on the argument. What's the logical fallacy called, reductio absurdum? You were asking about the many that are deemed mentally ill - now you want to expand that to have to apply to all jihadis? Many doesn't mean all, or even most. Many refugees haven mental health problems, and as we know that can reverberate thru the generations. Nobody, except you, has claimed this applies to all of them.

You talk about 3000 people on police radar. How often, with these mini jihadis, that are deemed mentally ill, do we hear they weren't on the police radar? They were petty criminals acting like they had a mental problem. Do you see the difference between them and the 3000?

You call what I said psychobabble. Maybe, but you seem to live in a very simplistic, black and white, world.

If many refugees have mental health problems please explain why the Chinese aren't blowing up the Lions Gate Bridge or why the East Indians haven't attacked the clientel of the Fraser Downs casino.

Some, and by that I don't mean alot of the refugees may have mental health issues but, if we're to believe the media the homegrown ones by and far seem to always come from a decent family and upbringing. As the matter of fact quite a few of them show no tendency towards extremism till they go off the rails and commit a terrorist act. So, do they suddenly go insane or is their sudden fervor towards a religion and doctrine that promotes violence the reason for their 180 degree thought process?

BTW I already thought we'd ascertained that when it comes to certain things, I lived in a black and white world and make no excuses for it nor my philosophy towards life.

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

If many refugees have mental health problems please explain why the Chinese aren't blowing up the Lions Gate Bridge or why the East Indians haven't attacked the clientel of the Fraser Downs casino.

[andyt]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

Some, and by that I don't mean alot of the refugees may have mental health issues but, if we're to believe the media the homegrown ones by and far seem to always come from a decent family and upbringing.

If you meant homegrown jihadis, rather than refugees, most of the ones in Canada were not deemed mentally ill afaik. The parliament shooter was deemed such, and of course we know that people growing up in "decent" families in Canada can also at times become mentally ill. What seems to set the mentally ill ones apart is they act as lone wolves, they are not part of a group and seem to get radicalized over the net. Ie they are first crazy, then find a meme to structure that crazy around.

The "sane" ones from middle class families seem to me not qualitatively different than other radicals we've had in Western society in previous times. Idealism, wanting to change the world, and going over the top, getting too full of themselves. They seem to be part of a larger group most of the time, not isolated loners.

You're still playing the all or none game. It is entirely possible that mentally ill young men find jihad something, as I say, to structure their illness round, or think they found "the truth." It is an accepted given that many refugees from countries in upheaval suffer mental problems and that this can be passed on to the children. So it makes sense that some of the jihadis we get are mentally ill first, then jihadi. Of course violent jihad is already an expression of mental illness - you have to be nuts to think that way.


Violent jihad is a crazy ideology. It makes sense that it attracts the crazies. Basically I would say that all jihadis are off their gourd in some fashion. But that's different than being not criminally responsible by reason of a mental disorder. These guys all knew right from wrong. I would be very surprised if any of them are found not guilty by reason of insanity. Just guys with various mental problems that think jihad is the answer.

[Freakinoldguy]

Freudian slip of the keyboard but, my point still stands. Most Jihadi's both homegrown and guests don't fit the clinical definition of insane anymore than most of our own murders do.

To be crazy in the eyes of the law they have to have a cognitive illness or fault that exonerates them from accountability for their actions. So unless being raised in Islam or following the teachings of some radical Imam counts as insanity very few of these jihadi's can be considered crazy.

As for using PTSD as an excuse for their actions. Sorry but that's not a given and here's why.

$1:

Sparr, who has expertise in mental incapacity defenses, said PTSD is not an easy defense to use and cautions against the idea that there will be an epidemic of these cases.
"PTSD as an insanity defense in a murder case is hard to use because the person knows the difference between right and wrong," said Sparr. "They are not delusional or psychotic. For example, they do not believe they have killed a Martian instead of a human."
And Sparr adds that, depending on the state's law, the other issue may be whether or not the defendant could have controlled his or her behavior.
"In either case, you usually have to prove that the defendant was in the throes of a flashback when committing the crime," said Sparr.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/05/justice/p ... index.html

Unless these refugee Jihadi's were in the military and fought in combat their actions don't follow the pattern of a PTSD survivor since despite having seen horrific things they still know right from wrong which, means something else besides batshit crazy is driving their actions and that pretty much only leaves one thing.