[BeaverFever]

$1:

No austerity? Take a look at health care, for starters. They cannot reach their budget goals without cutting.

1) Austerity means deep, across the board cuts, not targeted cuts. Like I said, I don't agree with everything they've done but these cuts aren't the same as conservative-style austerity now is it? The "health care cuts" are mostly an overall 1.9% reduction in doctors' fee-for-service billing. Ontario doctors will continue to be the highest paid doctors in Canada even after these reductions. That said, it's 1.9% "overall" meaning most services are not cut and some are cut severely.

2) Besides, wouldn't a Conservative like you think cuts and austerity are a good thing? What are you complaining about here?

$1:

If you feel that CPP needed to be enhanced, of course it was a good thing.

Yes I do. So do most experts and financial analysts.

$1:

Curriculum is updated all the time. Nothing to high-five over.

The high-five is that they did it despite all the shrieks and outrageous lies and faith-baiting hysteria

$1:

I think what you see and hear, is different than reality. The Liberals have cut a ton of services from OHIP during their tenure and are currently battling with doctors and have laid off nurses this year.

As I said I'm not a fan of every one of their targeted cuts but investment in transit is especially accelerated. The recent health "cuts" to doctors fees are addressed above and don't offset past years investments in new health services and hospitals.

$1:

Since it's never worked anywhere else in the World, I doubt it will work here. Terrible idea.

We'll see. At least is bold and innovative and not just more of the status quo, do-nothing, head-in-the-sand measures that we most commonly see from most governments, left or right. That's one thing that I probably admire most about McGuinty-Wynne is that they are reformers who are not afraid to be bold and innovative and challenge the status-quo, as opposed to just the usual minor tinkering that most care-taker governments end up being.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

1) Austerity means deep, across the board cuts, not targeted cuts. Like I said, I don't agree with everything they've done but these cuts aren't the same as conservative-style austerity now is it? The "health care cuts" are mostly an overall 1.9% reduction in doctors' fee-for-service billing. Ontario doctors will continue to be the highest paid doctors in Canada even after these reductions. That said, it's 1.9% "overall" meaning most services are not cut and some are cut severely.

It was actually 2.65%, but a cut is still a cut. 1,700+ nurses gone in the last 3 years. We have the second lowest nurse-to-patient ratio of any province.

Kathleen had a massive hole in her budget which only union leader Smokey Thomas noticed. While the Conservatives were saying they'd made cuts, the Liberals said the same thing within their books.

Austerity is austerity. It's not better if Liberals do it too.

We as Ontarians have lost so much to health care cuts during the McGuinty/Wynne era. I've seen it myself as I'm battling some medical issues.

I'm having to pay for certain blood tests, eye exams and chiropractic care...all of which were covered before they came into office.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

2) Besides, wouldn't a Conservative like you think cuts and austerity are a good thing? What are you complaining about here?

When have I ever said that all cuts are a good thing?

Point is, the Ontario Liberals have to make deep cuts to keep their promise of balancing their books. Just because they don't announce it, doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The high-five is that they did it despite all the shrieks and outrageous lies and faith-baiting hysteria

Even so, not much of an accomplishment.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

As I said I'm not a fan of every one of their targeted cuts but investment in transit is especially accelerated. The recent health "cuts" to doctors fees are addressed above and don't offset past years investments in new health services and hospitals.

No need to use quotations. There have been documented cuts to doctors fees, services provided and nurses.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

We'll see. At least is bold and innovative and not just more of the status quo, do-nothing, head-in-the-sand measures that we most commonly see from most governments, left or right. That's one thing that I probably admire most about McGuinty-Wynne is that they are reformers who are not afraid to be bold and innovative and challenge the status-quo, as opposed to just the usual minor tinkering that most care-taker governments end up being.

It's not really bold or innovative. They've copied what other jurisdictions have done around the World in the hopes that it would work....and score some political points too by looking "green" to the electorate.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

It was actually 2.65%, but a cut is still a cut. 1,700+ nurses gone in the last 3 years. We have the second lowest nurse-to-patient ratio of any province.

I don't know about the 1,700 nurses gone but there are still 24,000 net new nurses than when the Liberals first came to office. Like I said, I don't agree with every policy they have but this one issue doesn't make them "bad government."

$1:

Point is, the Ontario Liberals have to make deep cuts to keep their promise of balancing their books. Just because they don't announce it, doesn't mean it's not going to happen.

Hardly. The independent Financial Accountability Officer confirms the deficit is shrinking with a small deficit this year and predicted balanced budget in 2017-2018. That doesn't sound like secret massive cuts are planned to avert any looming crisis.

$1:

It's not really bold or innovative. They've copied what other jurisdictions have done around the World in the hopes that it would work....and score some political points too by looking "green" to the electorate.

Of course it is, its still not common and still relatively new to Canada. And the ARE green not just trying to look Green.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Hardly. The independent Financial Accountability Officer confirms the deficit is shrinking with a small deficit this year and predicted balanced budget in 2017-2018. That doesn't sound like secret massive cuts are planned to avert any looming crisis.

Confirmed? He did nothing of the sort.

The same FAO that said last month the Liberals are blocking his access to budget forecasts and program costs?

The Liberals are telling the ministries to block his access to the information he needs.

http://london.ctvnews.ca/financial-acco ... -1.2924659

So no, he hasn't confirmed anything as he doesn't have access to the documentation.

Even without the documentation, he projects a $580-million shortfall in 2017-18.

http://business.financialpost.com/news/ ... icer-warns

Add to that, the Liberals tried to cut funding to families with Autistic children and back peddled on that today after months of pressure from the public (and ignoring hired experts).

http://www.citynews.ca/2016/06/28/ontar ... -backlash/

Just because cuts aren't being announced during a campaign, doesn't mean they aren't happening.

Anyone can run a budget without care for debt. That's easy! Once the dust settles and Kathleen is gone from office, I'm curious what legacy will be left, if anything at all. I just hope it's better than the legacy left by Dalton.

[BeaverFever]

That's exactly what he said:

Budget watchdog says Ontario Liberals can balance books next year
https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark ... -year.html

Ontario can balance budget in 2017-18 after 9 straight deficits: fiscal watchdog
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-government-fiscal-update-1.3587330

Watchdog admits Liberals can balance books next year
Ontario’s budget watchdog says Premier Kathleen Wynne’s government will be able to balance the books next year as promised.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/65601 ... next-year/

I don't agree with the stonewalling that's happening at the moment, but he hasn't been prevented from making his projection.

And considering that you're a champion of Harris, the man who presided over some of the most egregious and devastating cuts to healthcare that any Canadian province has ever seen, I find it odd that you can't stop picking at the Liberals cuts.

All the while the biggest complaint you have about Liberals is that they won't cut more. Right? I mean you don't want them to balance the budget with new taxes do you? In fact I think you want tax cuts paid for with budget cuts, right? What is it you want from them right now more budget cuts? Fewer budget cuts? I don't understand what you're asking for. I have a sense that no matter what it is, it won't matter you'll criticise it anyway.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

That's exactly what he said:

Read the entire article, not just the headline:

$1:

While he forecasts a $4-billion deficit for this year and a $580 million shortfall for next year, revenue growth indicates Ontario will indeed soon be back in the black

They won't balance the budget in 2017-18 as promised. It'll be pushed back to 2018-2019 in time for the election.

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

And considering that you're a champion of Harris, the man who presided over some of the most egregious and devastating cuts to healthcare that any Canadian province has ever seen, I find it odd that you can't stop picking at the Liberals cuts.

Wow!

Totally wrong.

You and the rest of your Liberal counterparts forget that while kissing the ass of Jean Chretien and Paul Martin, you were vilifying Harris for the cuts to health care that the LIBERALS MADE!

Not only was health care spending restored to pre-Chretien era during Harris's tenure, but it was increased.

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

All the while the biggest complaint you have about Liberals is that they won't cut more. Right? I mean you don't want them to balance the budget with new taxes do you? In fact I think you want tax cuts paid for with budget cuts, right? What is it you want from them right now more budget cuts? Fewer budget cuts? I don't understand what you're asking for. I have a sense that no matter what it is, it won't matter you'll criticise it anyway.

I want them to show some responsibility. I want them to make tough choices. I want them to say "NO" to some people and groups. We have a bloated public service. One that's grown ten-fold under this Liberal Party.

[BeaverFever]

How many fucking times do I have to tell you I'm not a fan of Martin or Chretiens cuts? Ive said that to you a thousand times. How many times do I have to repeat it before it sinks in?

[housewife]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

How many fucking times do I have to tell you I'm not a fan of Martin or Chretiens cuts? Ive said that to you a thousand times. How many times do I have to repeat it before it sinks in?

I heard you I just really have a hard time understanding the fact that you still back them

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

How many fucking times do I have to tell you I'm not a fan of Martin or Chretiens cuts? Ive said that to you a thousand times. How many times do I have to repeat it before it sinks in?

Point taken, my apologies.

First off, think twice before you make sweeping statements about conservatives. If you get so bent out of shape, consider that when you post things like you consistently do..

Second, you keep repeating the same false statement. Despite being told numerous times, you keep saying that Harris made deep cuts to health care when it was Chretien.

So if you're tired of people making incorrect statements, perhaps you should consider that before you keep doing the same.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Despite being told numerous times, you keep saying that Harris made deep cuts to health care when it was Chretien.

Technically speaking, the health care is a provincial responsibility. True Chretien reduced health and social transfers to the provinces (again, I don't approve) but Harris is the one who chose to spend his budget and the revenues he raised from gutting other programs on tax cuts. He even laughed about it: Nurses are like hula-hoop makers, they're out of fashion. Remember that gem he droppe when layed off thousands of them?

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

Technically speaking, the health care is a provincial responsibility. True Chretien reduced health and social transfers to the provinces (again, I don't approve) but Harris is the one who chose to spend his budget and the revenues he raised from gutting other programs on tax cuts.

Yea, health is a Provincial responsibility but when someone cuts billions from your budget to provide those services, it takes a toll.

What programs did Harris "gut"?