[Lemmy]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

You're wrong

No, you're wrong. You're always wrong. Wrong defines you.

[N_Fiddledog]

Oh God...Really Professor?

Not, "I know you are but what am I?"

You did notice the actual issue I was discussing was Antarctic ice, right?

Stop it. It's funny, but stop it. Be a good boy, maybe I'll give you a cookie.

[Lemmy]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Not, "I know you are but what am I?"

Yep. That's what we're down to.

Fiddler Fiddler:

You did notice the actual issue I was discussing was Antarctic ice, right?

Yeah, which is less important than arctic ice...except for penguins.

Diddler Diddler:

Stop it. It's funny, but stop it. Be a good boy, maybe I'll give you a cookie.

Shucks, offering to share your lunch with me. Cute. But you better keep it. Your mommy intended you to eat all she packed for you.

[N_Fiddledog]

No problem Lemster. She likes me to share with the slow kids. Builds character.

[DrCaleb]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Most directly though, you don't get to even hint the evil "carbon pollution" might be melting the Antarctic and raising sea levels anymore. It's just not. And I get to say, "Cause NASA says so".

And this is where you fall down. The article, and the study specifically say:

$1:

“The good news is that Antarctica is not currently contributing to sea level rise, but is taking 0.23 millimeters per year away,” Zwally said. “But this is also bad news. If the 0.27 millimeters per year of sea level rise attributed to Antarctica in the IPCC report is not really coming from Antarctica, there must be some other contribution to sea level rise that is not accounted for.”

Antarctica might not be contributing to rising seas because increased warmth means increased snowfall, but that doesn't mean atmosphereic CO2 isn't causing the rise in sea levels we are seeing. It means we don't know the cause, which is yet another climate factor we don't yet know about.

Because NASA says so.

[BartSimpson]

NASA doesn't always speak the truth.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/61 ... ps-melting

$1:

The supposedly disappearing ice was part of the regular drip-drip-drip of bad news that the alarmists so desperately need in order to persuade the public that “climate change” is real and urgent and that only the most radical solutions can save us from its horrors.

But the Antarctic has always been a bit of a problem for the alarmists. Unlike with the floating ice caps around the North Pole, which really did look for a time like they were vanishing (though they have since staged a recovery), the evidence for Antarctic ice loss has never been strong.

That is because the area is so vast and inhospitable it is hard to be sure what is really going on there. Sure there is the odd lonely outpost like the British Antarctic Survey’s Halley VI Research Station on the Brunt Ice Shelf.

But that still leaves most of the continent’s 5,500,000 square miles (about a third bigger than the whole of Europe) unexplored – and with temperatures that can drop as low as -89.6C, with an average winter temperature of around -49C this is clearly not the kind of place where you could ever maintain a comprehensive network of weather stations.

All the scare stories you have ever read about the Antarctic concern one of the few relatively accessible parts: the West Antarctic Ice Sheet.

This has indeed been breaking off in large chunks, which alarmist scientists and newspapers have claimed makes it a dread harbinger of man-made global warming.

Or at least they did until last year when the University of Texas discovered that the more likely cause of this melt, which has been going on for 20,000 years by the way, was the geothermal heat from all the volcanoes sitting underneath it.

That is by no means the only setback alarmist scientists have experienced there recently. In the Christmas of 2013 an Australian climate change expedition came unstuck when their research ship was trapped in ice they had not been expecting because they believed so faithfully in “global warming”. This latest research from Nasa is a bigger blow to their cause.

And we know it is accurate because it uses altimetry data from satellites to gauge changes in the size of the Antarctic land mass.

What this shows is that between 1992 and 2001 the ice sheet gained 112billion tons of ice per year. This rate slowed between 2003 and 2008 but still the ice sheet was gaining 82billion tons a year.

Summary: According to NASA's own data the Antarctic ice mass has consistently INCREASED between 1992-2008.

It was never shrinking. Not even when you include the bits of ice that broke off and that received big news coverage.

[N_Fiddledog]

And now there's another study. This one concerns growing snow accumulation in the Western Antarctic.

WASHINGTON, DC — Annual snow accumulation on West Antarctica’s coastal ice sheet increased dramatically during the 20th century, according to a new study published in the American Geophysical Union journal Geophysical Research Letters.

West Antarctic coastal snow accumulation rose 30 percent during 20th century

Hey, I just remembered something...

Does anybody else remember? Was it last year, or the year before? The Guardian newspaper and other assorted loons, including some calling themselves scientists, launched the Antarctic expedition that became known as "Ship of Fools?"

Basically these warmiacs all got together and hired a ship to take them down to the Antarctic to study and report on all the warming and melting ice they thought was down there. I think they went down in Antarctic summer.

The ice that wasn't supposed to be there grabbed them and wouldn't let them go. It took multiple nations and millions of dollars weeks to finally get them all off the ice. I think they had to leave the ship in the ice.

Just in case somebody wants to try to make the point that the climate catastrophe crowd wasn't using the Antarctic as part their "boiling oceans, Chicken Little" schtick.

[DrCaleb]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

Hey, I just remembered something...

Does anybody else remember? Was it last year, or the year before? The Guardian newspaper and other assorted loons, including some calling themselves scientists, launched the Antarctic expedition that became known as "Ship of Fools?"

Basically these warmiacs all got together and hired a ship to take them down to the Antarctic to study and report on all the warming and melting ice they thought was down there. I think they went down in Antarctic summer.

The ice that wasn't supposed to be there grabbed them and wouldn't let them go. It took multiple nations and millions of dollars weeks to finally get them all off the ice. I think they had to leave the ship in the ice.

Just in case somebody wants to try to make the point that the climate catastrophe crowd wasn't using the Antarctic as part their "boiling oceans, Chicken Little" schtick.

So, you are using the fact that blowing winds can move ice across the oceans as evidence that the Earth isn't warming? Fail. And more with chickens and boiling no one was talking about?

I notice you didn't say anything about the two guys that went North to measure ice thickness in lakes, and fell through and drown because the ice wasn't thick enough.

And, as a parting thought, here's a quote from one of the authors of this Antarctic study:

$1:

The findings do not mean that Antarctica is not in trouble, Zwally notes. “I know some of the climate deniers will jump on this, and say this means we don’t have to worry as much as some people have been making out,” he says. “It should not take away from the concern about climate warming.” As global temperatures rise, Antarctica is expected to contribute more to sea-level rise, though when exactly that effect will kick in, and to what extent, remains unclear.

http://www.nature.com/news/gains-in-ant ... es-1.18486

[N_Fiddledog]

$1:

I notice you didn't say anything about the two guys that went North to measure ice thickness in lakes, and fell through and drown because the ice wasn't thick enough

I actually didn't know about that one, but it's the only part of your post that's interesting. Got a link?

I'm wondering how many millions of dollars and how many weeks the rescue mission took on that rescue effort. With the Ship of Fools Antarctic expedition Russia, China, and Australia tried to get those idiots off the ice that wasn't supposed to be there.

Speaking of idiots: I think the "Ship of Fools" guys might hold the idiot record. Sorry your friends fell through the ice though. Happened to an uncle of mine one time. That was sad.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I notice you didn't say anything about the two guys that went North to measure ice thickness in lakes, and fell through and drown because the ice wasn't thick enough.

What's to say? They went there late in the season knowing that they were measuring the colloquially termed 'last ice' which is known to be dangerous.

They predictably fell through but at least they died with the smug satisfaction of knowing that their graves would be emblazoned with the epitaph of,

"See? I told you the damned ice was thin!"

Had they bothered with #5 on the Wikihow checklist (Check with the locals) they'd probably be alive to snark at all of us right now.

http://www.wikihow.com/Know-When-Ice-is-Safe

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I notice you didn't say anything about the two guys that went North to measure ice thickness in lakes, and fell through and drown because the ice wasn't thick enough.

What's to say? They went there late in the season knowing that they were measuring the colloquially termed 'last ice' which is known to be dangerous.

They went there at the end of winter, when ice was supposed to be thickest and when the ice is normally measured.

$1:

Cornelissen and de Roo departed Resolute Bay for Bathurst Island on 6 April as part of the Last Ice Survey expedition, with the goal of exploring and researching an area known as the Last Ice Area. Both were experienced polar explorers and researchers.

In addition to his work with Cold Facts, de Roo traveled to Antarctica in 2000 to conduct climate research on behalf of the World Wide Fund for Nature.

Climate and sea ice models have indicated that the region in the high Arctic of Canada and Greenland, where Cornelissen and de Roo were gathering data, will be the last stronghold of summer sea ice as the planet continues to warm.

http://www.theguardian.com/vital-signs/ ... ornelissen

[N_Fiddledog]

Sometime between April and May then. Yeah I could see that. My uncle fell through before that. I think it was closer to Easter, so that's March, isn't it?

But yeah, there's always clues to where it's a bad spot if you look. He didn't. I think he was drunk.

But those Dutch ice testers:

$1:

A pilot flying over the area spotted the pair’s equipment in an area with poor ice conditions and open water. Their sled dog was found sitting on the ice nearby.

I don't know how unseasonable the spring thaw would be in April there. It wasn't that bad overall in the Arctic last year.

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php

Maybe later I'll check out that gizmo at cryosphere today where they show the melt by region, by day, by year.

You can't go by what The Guardian says. They were among the 'Ship of Fools'. I think they put money into leasing the ship.

Too bad for the Dutchies that fell through the ice though. Sorry about that Netherlands. What can we say? Canada eh.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

They went there at the end of winter

Late April is not winter in the Northern Hemisphere.

[ShepherdsDog]

It is here....and a big chunk of May too.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

They went there at the end of winter

Late April is not winter in the Northern Hemisphere.

Yeah, it kind of depends WHERE in the Northern Hemisphere you are.

If you're in California, I'd agree with you, but if you're on Bathurst Island, it still is (at least according to Environment Canada).