[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947.

Here is what that map looked like:
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg/230px-UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg[/img


The Arabs never agreed to this, they went to war. And lost.

Why is this so difficult to understand ?

Because it's retarded and irrelevant. South Korea has never recognized the borders of North Korea, so in your idiotic mind North Korea can legitimately decree whatever territory it wants?

aww, poor little Jew hater has to immediately start trolling insults,
because he knows he lost before he began.

As usual.

Come back when you learn some history, instead of your usual muslim loving shit.


It is relevant. On the ground. Where the Jews are. Where you aren't.
And it isn't going to change because you get all butthurt.

[Zipperfish]

martin14 martin14:

aww, poor little Jew hater has to immediately start trolling insults,

The biggest racist on the boards is accusing Beav of beign a racist. That's a gooder!

[BeaverFever]

says:

$1:

has to immediately start trolling insults,

after starting with:

$1:

aww, poor little Jew hater

Nice one.

Then proves hes not a troll by making the on-topic intelligent argument:

(none)

Martin, I say this with no intent to "troll" but just to be brutally honest: Your posts are almost always nothing except personal insults and the odd brief and unsupported claim which you aren't even able to defend and revert back to insults. You are the definition of a troll and by far the most useless member of this site, even to people 'on your side'. You are in my opinion the WORST regular on this forum. Your posts are the least intelligent, most ignorant and most uninformed.

Believe it or not I respect (even like) most of the people on this site, including those I regularly clash with in forums but you are by far the worst member on this site in my opinion.

So pretty please, with sugar on top, just piss off. I'm not wasting any more of my increasingly limited time available for this site on you.

[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

says:

$1:

has to immediately start trolling insults,

after starting with:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

so in your idiotic mind

You are so full of shit it's funny.

[BartSimpson]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

By that logic, Native Americans should take back control of North America, all North Americans should have right of return to whatever Eurpean nation of their ancestry, and the people who occupied the Levant before the Jews should take back their land (spoiler: that's probably the Palestinians).

No. What I am saying is that there's no end of hypocrisy in your condemnation of Israel for 'occupying Palestinian land' when you issue your pronouncement from land that Europeans took from the First Nations.

Hand over your country to its acknowledged original owners and THEN you won't come off as a hypocrite when talking about Israel.

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

martin14 martin14:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

The General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947.

Here is what that map looked like:
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg/230px-UN_Palestine_Partition_Versions_1947.jpg[/img


The Arabs never agreed to this, they went to war. And lost.

Why is this so difficult to understand ?

Because it's retarded and irrelevant. South Korea has never recognized the borders of North Korea, so in your idiotic mind North Korea can legitimately decree whatever territory it wants?

In any case neither party agreed to borders. In his letter to Truman Epstein declared an independent Republic within Frontiers approved by the United Nations.

Frontiers would be the whole map.



You disagree with that, of course. Fine. Show me how "Frontiers" is a legal term. You can't. It's not.

Borders are something different. Neither party agreed to borders. Israel might have, but the Muslims wouldn't. Neither party ever signed anything agreeing to borders in 1948. So there were none.

As far as Israel goes concerning its declaration of itself.

$1:

During the process, there were two major debates, centering around the issues of borders and religion. On the border issue, the original draft had declared that the borders would be that decided by the UN partition plan. While this was supported by Rosen and Bechor-Shalom Sheetrit, it was opposed by Ben-Gurion and Zisling, with Ben-Gurion stating, "We accepted the UN Resolution, but the Arabs did not. They are preparing to make war on us. If we defeat them and capture western Galilee or territory on both sides of the road to Jerusalem, these areas will become part of the state. Why should we obligate ourselves to accept boundaries that in any case the Arabs don't accept?"[9] The inclusion of the designation of borders in the text was dropped after the provisional government of Israel, the Minhelet HaAm, voted 5–4 against it.[10] The Revisionists, committed to a Jewish state on both sides of the Jordan River (that is, including Transjordan), wanted the phrase "within its historic borders" included but were unsuccessful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_D ... dependence

So there were no borders in 1948. Jordan later grabbed the West bank. Egypt grabbed Gaza. Later Israel grabbed those territories back.

Who has greater right to the disputed territories? The Muslims who grabbed them after their Arab league attacked in 1948, or the Jews who grabbed them after the 6 day war?

They're disputed territories.

[BeaverFever]

All that matters is that in yhe 20th century you cannot seize land by military conquest. Period. And you cannot colonize it with settlers. Period. It doesn't matter that some current or historical Israelis think they're entitled to it and have been demanding it. Putin thinks he's entitled to Ukraine. Doesn't matter.

Arguments about Egypt and Jordan are red herrings, this has nothing to do with either of them as they are not Palestinians.

[Thanos]

Rules on the ground are all that matter now. The Arabs are incapable of defeating Israel militarily, and most of the surrounding countries no longer even have the will to try anymore because they've suffered so many defeats at Israeli hands, therefore Israel can make the rules on what belongs to who. Low-grade terrorism will keep happening, which Israel is prepared to endure, at least until the day comes when someone drops a nuke on them and when that happens the whole rotten region will most likely be turned into radioactive glass when it's over.

[BeaverFever]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

By that logic, Native Americans should take back control of North America, all North Americans should have right of return to whatever Eurpean nation of their ancestry, and the people who occupied the Levant before the Jews should take back their land (spoiler: that's probably the Palestinians).

No. What I am saying is that there's no end of hypocrisy in your condemnation of Israel for 'occupying Palestinian land' when you issue your pronouncement from land that Europeans took from the First Nations.

Hand over your country to its acknowledged original owners and THEN you won't come off as a hypocrite when talking about Israel.

Big difference. We colonized centuries ago, I mean are you saying that Israel should be allowed to catch slaves from Africa just because other countries did in the past?

Besides, although FN in North America have many problems, today they are citizens with voting rights, not subjects under a foreign military occupation without rights as is the case in palestine

[BeaverFever]

.

[andyt]

As I said, let Israel treat the Palestinians as we do the FN's today, that's fine. Our courts are awarding more and more control over more and more land to the FN's, their rights are specifically recognized in our constitution, they have all the rights of citizenship, plus. Of course if Israel did that, it would cease to become a Jewish state in short order. Probably better for Israel to close the settlements and quit practicing apartheid.

[N_Fiddledog]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

All that matters is that in yhe 20th century you cannot seize land by military conquest. Period. And you cannot colonize it with settlers. Period. It doesn't matter that some current or historical Israelis think they're entitled to it and have been demanding it. Putin thinks he's entitled to Ukraine. Doesn't matter.

Arguments about Egypt and Jordan are red herrings, this has nothing to do with either of them as they are not Palestinians.

Nothing red about those herrings.

If you say you "cannot seize land", then Egypt and Jordan had no right to it. So nobody owns it.

Again it becomes "Disputed Territory". No matter which angle you twist and turn to go at it it's still "Disputed Territory". Nobody has superior claim.

[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

All that matters is that in yhe 20th century you cannot seize land by military conquest. Period.

Crimea
Alsace-Lorraine
rewriting the borders of Germany and Poland, a couple of times.
Vietnam

$1:

And you cannot colonize it with settlers. Period.

Tibet

$1:

It doesn't matter that some current or historical Israelis think they're entitled to it and have been demanding it. Putin thinks he's entitled to Ukraine. Doesn't matter.

It does matter to the people in the Crimea, because the Russians are there.



So you are wrong. Period. Again. Period. As usual. Period.

[BeaverFever]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

All that matters is that in yhe 20th century you cannot seize land by military conquest. Period. And you cannot colonize it with settlers. Period. It doesn't matter that some current or historical Israelis think they're entitled to it and have been demanding it. Putin thinks he's entitled to Ukraine. Doesn't matter.

Arguments about Egypt and Jordan are red herrings, this has nothing to do with either of them as they are not Palestinians.

Nothing red about those herrings.

If you say you "cannot seize land", then Egypt and Jordan had no right to it. So nobody owns it.

Again it becomes "Disputed Territory". No matter which angle you twist and turn to go at it it's still "Disputed Territory". Nobody has superior claim.

Doesn't make it finders keepers for Israel. They have no business occupying it, they should be working to create separate Palestinian and Israeli states according to 1948 boundaries.

[Thanos]

Might makes right in these situations. Always has, always will. Israel isn't going to give up anything anytime in either the near or far futures. Getting stung by Hamas taking over Gaza won't ever be allowed to be repeated in the West Bank.