[andyt]

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

As a species perhaps, but if our solution as a society is "there is no solution, so let's open the doors and wait to see what the barbarians at the gates will do" our destruction as a society is insured.

Absolutely. So is our destruction assured if we think that door opens all around the globe and we have to preemptively sally forth every time there's trouble around the world and ensure order, good government and friendliness towards us. The first way you get overrun, the second way you wear yourself out and then get overrun. You can't always get what you want.

[N_Fiddledog]

Thanos Thanos:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

$1:

I prefer Krauthammer's strategy. In general the strategy of dealing with bullies by walking away sounds good, but it doesn't work in reality.

Schoolyard analogies are one of the many marks of a failed mind and a failed ideology.

But see, the problem with pithy little put-downs is they're far from superior. In fact it's kind of self congratulatory isn't it? Kind of like, "you suck, so I'm so much better".

And worse, that's all there is. Where's the evidence for any of these self-congratulatory pithy little put-downs you rely on. For example Krauthammer's decades of prize winning work as a journalist is called into question, but based on what exactly? What exactly is he supposed to have done. He did something you say, but what? I look and all I can find is some allegations from some far left nut-job websites. If you're only problem is he's a member of a think tank, so what? You know somebody who has superior purity to that, do you? No you don't.

Even if he's on the board of a think tank not in favor with the far-left, counter-culture sub-media at the moment, so what? But come to think of it, link please.

[andyt]

You're hanging your hat far too heavily on "prize winning." If somebody did that with a progressive journalist you'd be smearing that journalist from here to Sunday. So to today, I guess.

Coming from Krauthammer, his ideas are basically a failed continuation of the Bush regime, just with a new twist. The US is still seen as all powerful and able to determine events to its choosing. No more. The Shrubster put paid to that, financing a futile destructive war with Chinese money.

[N_Fiddledog]

andyt andyt:

N_Fiddledog N_Fiddledog:

As a species perhaps, but if our solution as a society is "there is no solution, so let's open the doors and wait to see what the barbarians at the gates will do" our destruction as a society is insured.

Absolutely. So is our destruction assured if we think that door opens all around the globe and we have to preemptively sally forth every time there's trouble around the world and ensure order, good government and friendliness towards us. The first way you get overrun, the second way you wear yourself out and then get overrun. You can't always get what you want.

That's an exaggeration here. We're talking about dealing with ISIS.

You appear to be saying the solution here is to walk away and allow it's spread.

That is what you're saying, right?

[andyt]

Contain it as best we can. As I say, let them build a state. Trying to full on fight ISIS now is just a quagmire that would further drain the West of blood and treasure with no measurable results. let them form a state so you can go at them head on as needed.

Fully arming the Kurds will stir up all kinds of trouble with Turkey.

Training and arming the small faction of the Syrian rebels that is "friendly" to the West at the moment is a waste of time, will just deliver arms to the jihadi rebels in the end. Possibly propping up Assad then deposing him once he's won might work, I don't really know enough about the situation, and there's Russia to consider.

What's needed is diplomacy that solves the Kurds vs Turkey and Iran vs Saudi/Israel problem, so that the surrounding countries do their bit to contain the ISIS state. Probability of diplomatic success here is low, but so is sending troops to ISIS held territory. We do not have the hearts and minds of the population there, we will not be cheered as liberators. At the very least, if we're going to go in, tie Chaney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Abrahms, et al to the front of the tanks as we go.

[N_Fiddledog]

andyt andyt:

You're hanging your hat far too heavily on "prize winning."

Not really. His decades of credibility as a reputable mainstream journalist were being marginalized by a quick slur based on nothing more than smug smears from much less reputable, radical, far left, websites.

So I needed a counter to penetrate the group think. Progs like prizes. They're always telling us how great prizes are as they give each other something like say the Nobel peace prize. Very well, Charles Krauthammer won a Pullitzer prize in journalism. What? Awards don't matter anymore you say? That's curious.

[andyt]

The Pulitzer doesn't give him cred as foreign policy wonk. And as I say, if somebody was trumpeting the Pulitzer of a progressive journalist to bolster his opinions, you'd be flinging the slime all over the place.

Krauthammer is associated with the FPI, as I said. That means whatever he says on foreign policy is just more of the bullshit that came out of the Bush regime.

[N_Fiddledog]

andyt andyt:

What's needed is diplomacy that solves the Kurds vs Turkey and Iran vs Saudi/Israel problem, so that the surrounding countries do their bit to contain the ISIS state.

Oh, I know what to do then. Let's send John Kerry over to do some diplomacy.

Hooray! We're saved.

Wait...what's that you say? We did send John Kerry?

Now ISIS has spread throughout the middle east and Africa, and is gaining popularity world-wide with intermittent ISIS sourced attacks already happening in the West including Canada.

Anyway...he's busy right now working his crackerjack "Let's give them everything they want and run away" diplomacy on Iran.

Well that's good then. At least were safe from a nuclear attack.

Wait...what's that, you say? Now Iran is closer to a bomb than it was when the Kerry diplomacy machine rolled in. And now the Arabs want bombs too. Even ISIS is becoming a nuclear concern as circumstances may allow them nuclear capabilities through problem states like Pakistan, and they may already be on their way to what's called "dirty nukes".

"Soon Rome and Andulasia will be ours once more!" comes the cry from ISIS.

Thanks John Kerry.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

Contain it as best we can. As I say, let them build a state.

Where?

[martin14]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

andyt andyt:

Contain it as best we can. As I say, let them build a state.

Where?

Right on top of the oil of course.