[BeaverFever]

$1:

They built something for 1.5 billion and sold it for 3.1 billion. 1.6 billion dollar profit.

Ok, you asked for it....


Two things here:

(1) "They" - prior governments put up the money to build it. So the Harrisites claimed the one-time windfall of $3.1 billion as general revenue and against their "balanced" budget and didn't have to claim any of the costs

(2) If you include the money spent to buy the land for the highway and not just the construction costs, the taxpayer cost of the ETR is actually $104 billion.

3) Consortium’s exemption from paying property taxes (lost revenue to the taxpayer)

4) Anti-democratic secrecy: The deal agreement for the largest privatization in Canadian history - $100 billion + taxpayer investment - was riddled with all kinds of undemocratic non-disclosure and confidentiality agreements to hide certain terms from the public. The version of the deal that was released to the public was heavily redacted. When the public filed access to information requests, 407 ETR corp used these clauses to drag the whole thing through the courts which resulted in legal costs to the taxpayer ontop of everything else


5)99 year lease - the original plan had been to remove tolls once the highway was paid for eventually becoming an asset free for the public to use. Now they tolls continue indefinitely and actually increase - financially burdening drivers for at least a century. Your tax dollars already paid for it, so whether you use it or not it's more money out of your pocket.

The Harris government said a "A 99-year term is needed to ensure the private-sector operators make a reasonable profit." ETR Corp paid off its 3.1 Billion investment in 9 years. In 99 year lease. Does it really take 90 years for conservatives to make a 'reasonable profit'? NO wonder you people are always bitching about money!

6) The private Consortium can charge any toll they please without government oversight or regulation

7) The highway is worth far more than the amount signed:
Some independent financial analysts reported that the highway was worth at least four times its sale price. In 2001,the value of the road was pegged by investors at $6.3 billion, more than twice what the government was paid. The 407ETR makes just under $887.6 Million last year. Do the math - the $3.1 Billion they paid us for the highway is less than 5 years of revenue (factoring for inflation). And they have it for 99 years. 99!

[Jabberwalker]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

In Japan you can get beer in vending machines. But this ain't Japan. I doubt it would be handled as responsibly here.

You used to be able to buy beer in the various Marcom barracks like HMCS Stadacona in Halifax from vending machines in the mess.

I grew up in Quebec, where corner stores have sold beer since before the automobile was invented and this prissy Ontario " Our children will all go crazy" horseshit is ... well ... horseshit. If anything, a little bit more familiarity with alcohol makes the suicidal binge drinking that I see among the young here in Ontario quite a bit more rare in Quebec.

btw, Brewers Retail is a boondoggle and they should probably be investigated for feather-bedding public officials. How else would foreign owned monopoly continue to control the supply of beer, here? The whole concept is corrupt.

also ... Brewers Retail stores are dumpy places populated with the dregs of retail selling. LCBO is another boondoggle but at least they have a bit of class.

[ShepherdsDog]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

In Japan you can get beer in vending machines. But this ain't Japan. I doubt it would be handled as responsibly here.

Like Asians drink any more or less responsibly then we do. The business culture is work your ass off at work, and then drink your face off all evening with the boss. I saw plenty of suits passed out in puddles of puke in public places in Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Taipei. They are also more inclined to drive while intoxicated. My wife's cousin lives in Seoul, and he says it's the same there. It's a myth that Asians don't drink or can't hold their liquor. Hell we used to have booze(kaoliang ....the 120 proof shit) on the teachers' tables during school functions. Little pricks would always try and get me pissed, but I massed about 50% more than the biggest one on staff. I was always shocked how blasé some most of the parents were, walking past a teacher(always male) puking in the bushes.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

You used to be able to buy beer in the various Marcom barracks like HMCS Stadacona in Halifax from vending machines in the mess.

Up until a few years ago you could buy beer from vending machines in the galley. I never had more than two(because two results in multiplying), as I was prone to seasickness, and there were a few times I had a hangover last too long and a week of seasickness kicked in

[Jabberwalker]

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

You used to be able to buy beer in the various Marcom barracks like HMCS Stadacona in Halifax from vending machines in the mess.

Up until a few years ago you could buy beer from vending machines in the galley. I never had more than two(because two results in multiplying), as I was prone to seasickness, and there were a few times I had a hangover last too long and a week of seasickness kicked in

That sounds nasty.

It has to be REALLY rough to make me sick ... nothing natural, I've been sailing since I was a little kid and (I think) one learns not to get sick). I feel queasy if I'm nervous about the state of my "skin:" and I'm not completely confident about the safety of my situation.

[N_Fiddledog]

[PublicAnimalNo9]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

lying bitch

Classy. Careful, it's hard to take you seriously when your 'Shwa is showing

Are ya sure it's my "'Shwa"? Maybe it's my Windsor, or Kingston, or North Bay, or South Porcupine, or Winnipeg, or Edmonton, or Leamington, or Cambridge that's showing.

Are you saying she's not a lying bitch?

[OnTheIce]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

$1:

They built something for 1.5 billion and sold it for 3.1 billion. 1.6 billion dollar profit.

Ok, you asked for it....


Two things here:

(1) "They" - prior governments put up the money to build it. So the Harrisites claimed the one-time windfall of $3.1 billion as general revenue and against their "balanced" budget and didn't have to claim any of the costs

(2) If you include the money spent to buy the land for the highway and not just the construction costs, the taxpayer cost of the ETR is actually $104 billion.

3) Consortium’s exemption from paying property taxes (lost revenue to the taxpayer)

4) Anti-democratic secrecy: The deal agreement for the largest privatization in Canadian history - $100 billion + taxpayer investment - was riddled with all kinds of undemocratic non-disclosure and confidentiality agreements to hide certain terms from the public. The version of the deal that was released to the public was heavily redacted. When the public filed access to information requests, 407 ETR corp used these clauses to drag the whole thing through the courts which resulted in legal costs to the taxpayer ontop of everything else


5)99 year lease - the original plan had been to remove tolls once the highway was paid for eventually becoming an asset free for the public to use. Now they tolls continue indefinitely and actually increase - financially burdening drivers for at least a century. Your tax dollars already paid for it, so whether you use it or not it's more money out of your pocket.

The Harris government said a "A 99-year term is needed to ensure the private-sector operators make a reasonable profit." ETR Corp paid off its 3.1 Billion investment in 9 years. In 99 year lease. Does it really take 90 years for conservatives to make a 'reasonable profit'? NO wonder you people are always bitching about money!

6) The private Consortium can charge any toll they please without government oversight or regulation

7) The highway is worth far more than the amount signed:
Some independent financial analysts reported that the highway was worth at least four times its sale price. In 2001,the value of the road was pegged by investors at $6.3 billion, more than twice what the government was paid. The 407ETR makes just under $887.6 Million last year. Do the math - the $3.1 Billion they paid us for the highway is less than 5 years of revenue (factoring for inflation). And they have it for 99 years. 99!

So I have to ask you, why don't you have the same focus on similar fuck-ups by the Liberal government?

Why do you continue to return to a deal that's 16 year old as some sort of defence for the poor management of the sitting Liberals?

There's no doubt the 407 was a bad deal. I've said it, we've all said it.

You can move on. Perhaps focus on your attention on how the current government is fucking us rather than your usual "But the PC's did this......" 16 years ago.

[Jabberwalker]

There's no doubt the 407 was a bad deal. I've said it, we've all said it.

The big issue there is that it was done for ideological reasons. The ideology needs to be adjusted, some. This is why the Tories did so badly in the last election. The leader was a wanker. We could all smell that but the idea that the electorate has to move to meet their ideology and not the other way around is fundamentally flawed and the Tories had better snap out of it. It's not particularly democratic, either the idea that we will represent you if you change your mind and think the way that we do ... the only way to think. That was was Hudak all over.

[raydan]

The ROC sucks!