[stratos]

An even more fair question to ask is seeing as how this man was so mentally ill should he have not had a care giver/provider looking out for him. Where was this person and why are we not looking into them be it a person or institution. If instead this man was stable while taking meds and quit taking his meds the blame for his actions fall solely on him.

Is it fair to ask law enforcement to not only hold a law degree and or know and enforce all the laws along with being a on the spot physiatrist? I had to deal with a large number of mentally ill inmates and it was highly stressful not to mention dangerous. Now imagine being out "in the world" dealing with someone having a psychotic break down and weapon in hand.

Seems we are expecting the police to do any and all things and by God if we don't agree with how they did things we will persecute and blame them even if it is the other persons (criminals) fault.

[OnTheIce]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Thanos, just to be clear, my problem is not with cops who do their jobs and enforce the law. My problem is with the cops who bully people and murder people under color of authority.

It's not about being anti-police, it's about supporting the rule of law.

Bullshit.

Coming from the guy that projects the most bravado of anyone on here with the tough-guy mentality and the
kick-ass-take-names-later attitude, you're often the one talking about going above the law to solve your own problems.

This isn't about right and wrong, this is about your personal hard-on with police. Whether it's just because you never really were a real cop or maybe they hurt your feelings when you were a pretend cop, but let's stop pretending it's about the rule of law.

[Xort]

stratos stratos:

An even more fair question to ask is seeing as how this man was so mentally ill should he have not had a care giver/provider looking out for him.

That could be true, but health care and social workers don't just pop into existence when someone has mental issues.

$1:

Where was this person and why are we not looking into them be it a person or institution. If instead this man was stable while taking meds and quit taking his meds the blame for his actions fall solely on him.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions, but without more information we can't really fairly assign blame in this case. Did the man charge at the police? Did he just react and turn towards them when they (very likely) started yelling at him. Was this a valid use of lethal force?

I'd like to think it was justified, but without far more information I couldn't say right now.

$1:

Is it fair to ask law enforcement to not only hold a law degree and or know and enforce all the laws along with being a on the spot physiatrist?

They get paid enough that a working familiarity with both would be the lowest standard I would accept.

$1:

I had to deal with a large number of mentally ill inmates and it was highly stressful not to mention dangerous. Now imagine being out "in the world" dealing with someone having a psychotic break down and weapon in hand.

Doesn't matter, apply the training in how to handle mentally ill people and then use standard methods for dealing with the situation.

That's more or less the job description. If they don't like having to deal with the stressful dangerous world then get a job doing something else.

$1:

Seems we are expecting the police to do any and all things and by God if we don't agree with how they did things we will persecute and blame them even if it is the other persons (criminals) fault.

If the police act in violation of the law, they are still subject to it. Their lawful conduct is also up to public debate on just how we want officers to act. They are civil servants, and how the act is not up to person choice while on the job.

If we set a standard of taking any reasonable action to prevent the loss of life then that is the new standard. If we set the standard of do nothing to risk your own life then that's the standard.

~

While at the Vancouver Olympics my unit was given a warning about a transsexual man seeking death by cop. We didn't cry about how unfair it is that we need to do police work, or that we are not mental health workers, or that we had not been trained to deal with suicidal trannies.

We sat down and went over our RoE, talked about the potential risks and how to meet this problem. In the end it was stressed that we are not here to kill Canadians in Canada and to take every possible step to avoid having to hurting someone.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I hate you.

I know.

Happy New Year to you anyway!

[raydan]

Xort Xort:

I'm not a doctor but I think that man may have had some mental health issues.

You think.

[Zipperfish]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I hate you.

I know.

Happy New Year to you anyway!

great response!

Happy New Year to you too!

[OnTheIce]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I hate you.

I know.

Happy New Year to you anyway!

great response!

Happy New Year to you too!

How cute! Maybe you guys can snuggle for New Years?

[Unsound]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Thanos, just to be clear, my problem is not with cops who do their jobs and enforce the law. My problem is with the cops who bully people and murder people under color of authority.

It's not about being anti-police, it's about supporting the rule of law.

And for the rule of law to succeed the police have to obey the same laws they enforce.

That means no speeding when you're not responding to a call.

That means you don't park in a red zone instead of circling the block to find a better space when it's time for lunch.

That means that you don't do anything a regular citizen isn't allowed to do *unless* it is absolutely in the line of duty.

It also means that your actions are held to the same standards and subjected to the same scrutiny as anyone else's...if not more.

That means that it should no longer be the accepted norm that the #1 scofflaws in any given city all wear a badge.

Remind me I owe you a rep sometime.

[BartSimpson]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

How cute! Maybe you guys can snuggle for New Years?

You can jump in the middle if you want!

[andyt]

Unsound Unsound:

I don't think anyone is trying to argue that the shooting wasn't justified. What I'm getting from andy is that the the shooting needs to be investigated and questions like those Xort asked need to be asked. It's always possible to learn something that could be used in future similar situations. Whether it's a different way of dealing with the subject that doesn't lead to shooting, ir whether it's a matter of not emptying the magazine, or whatever.

Every shooting needs to be and is investigated, in part to see what can be learned and done differently. Most shootings in BC that are publicly witnessed seem to be legit, ie the cops had to shoot. It's more the ones that had no witnesses that can seem hinky.

You really shouldn't have to explain or justify my responses here - they are perfectly reasonable. What I didn't find reasonable was stratos' comments to Xort.

[raydan]

Unsound Unsound:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Remind me I owe you a rep sometime.

Done...

[martin14]

Xort Xort:

A fair question is, what would the UK police have done?

They would have arrested anyone looking funny at the perp for violating his rights,

then send the perp back to the welcoming arms of the mosque, along with a compensation cheque.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Thanos, just to be clear, my problem is not with cops who do their jobs and enforce the law. My problem is with the cops who bully people and murder people under color of authority.

It's not about being anti-police, it's about supporting the rule of law.

Bullshit.

Coming from the guy that projects the most bravado of anyone on here with the tough-guy mentality and the
kick-ass-take-names-later attitude, you're often the one talking about going above the law to solve your own problems.

This isn't about right and wrong, this is about your personal hard-on with police. Whether it's just because you never really were a real cop or maybe they hurt your feelings when you were a pretend cop, but let's stop pretending it's about the rule of law.

Hmm, just since Ferguson the police in the US have essentially murdered four unarmed young men(one of whom had Down's Syndrome) and one child with a toy gun and have gotten away with it. God knows how many other people have had their rights violated by police in that time.
Let's stop pretending this is about bias towards the police and try discussing it like the serious problem it is.

[Thanos]

Actually, if one wants to talk about an epidemic of race-based crime in the US, one should look at something like this instead:

http://www.amren.com/news/2014/12/onlin ... s-in-2014/

The numbers of victims alone, which receive absolutely NO coverage from the national American media, dwarfs the numbers of casualties in the alleged police war against the black community.

$1:

One white on black murder is a major national news story. Where is the outrage for the daily occurring black on white murders?

Present Tally: 348
Hold Up/Hate Crime/Thrill Kill: 167*
Pizza Shop: 5
Cab Driver: 6
Police Officers Killed: 9
Home Invasion: 58
Killed By A Friend: 18
Killed while providing charity: 2
Femicide: 49**
Femicide Related: 14***
Killed by boyfriend’s brother: 2
Killed by son/daughter: 2
Killed by female in-law: 1
Killed by foster child: 1
Killed by foster parents: 1
Criminal Vehicular Homicide: 13****

*Some victims may have been killed by someone they knew, but the media never reported the full details.

**There were numerous suspicious deaths of white females who died of drug overdoses while they were with black males. There is another case where a white female supposedly “shot herself playing Russian Roulette” with her black boyfriend. We only listed cases that were classified as murder by the authorities. We did not list cases in which a black male played an obvious role in the death, but the death was classified as accidental. There was one case of a white female being killed by a black female “ex-wife.” There are also numerous cases of a white female being shot by a play male while in the company of a black boyfriend. we did not count these as “femicide.” However, it seems that white females involved with black males are at a dramatically increased risk of being murdered by a black male in general.

***Femicide related refers to victims killed by the black boyfriend of relative or close friends. Many of these victims are young children of white females dating black males. Some are women who were attacked by the black boyfriend of a white female friend.

****We only listed cases of vehicular homicide in which the perp was committing serious crimes when they killed a victim. In several cases, the perp was fleeing from police. In two other cases, their is strong indication the perp did it on purpose.

This list is far from all black on white murders. This is just a sample. This list does not include the thousands of white victims who were seriously injured in black on white violence, only fatalities.

But, once again, the reaction from the media and social liberals usually amounts to nothing more than



No wonder at all that folks like Bart and his compatriots have armed themselves to the fucking teeth. If I lived down there I would have done the exact same fucking thing.

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

How cute! Maybe you guys can snuggle for New Years?

I was hoping to hit the party you were going to be at. Wait till you pass out then teabag your face and stick the photos up here.

Happy New Year!