[Thanos]

Anyone leaving the non-stop construction and maintenance jobs out of the oil sector part of the equation is just being plain disingenuous. The spin-off jobs from any industry are NOT irrelevant to the overall scenario. This is the same thing I tried to get across to anti-government people, that their silly war against the idea of government is dangerous and damaging to the overall economy because they'd willy-nilly sacrifice all the private sector jobs in other sectors that generate their profits just from working for and supplying material to the government. It's an endless happy circle where taxes spent creates income which in turn creates more taxes and then more income. As with the government/private sector arrangement so too with the overall cascade effect that oil sector/construction/maintenance arrangement has throughout the entire economy.

Damage one part of the system out of ideological malice and other sections of the overall system get damaged by default as well. Boost one sector and other sectors get boosted too as they go along with the beneficial trending. None of this is all that difficult to understand.

[BartSimpson]

Tides Canada is principally financed (like to the tune of +95%) by George Soros.

Gee, I'm sure Mr. Soros only has the very best of intentions for Canada in trying to suppress Canada's energy industry.

[andyt]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

It makes more sense to be efficient and use robots, but the wealth generated by those robots needs to be distributed to the population and not just the owners of the robots.

That's the silliest thing I think you've ever written.

"It makes more sense to be efficient and use power tools, but the wealth generated by those power tools needs to be distributed to the population and not just the owners of the power tools."

Guess what, it's already happening. We already have income redistribution in this country. But as we mechanize more and more jobs, putting people out of work, we just have to make that system more effective. Plenty of dystopian SciFi has been written about what happens when you create a permanent underclass while mechanization does the work. Mechanization is moving ever higher up the skill chain - turns out it's very easy to make algorithms to do work we find complex - eg engineering, even lawyering. So one day you may also find yourself replaced by machine and come to see the issue from a different perspective. It's the soft skills that are hard to mechanize, the ones we don't value very much, often. Those need to be paid decent wages, even if subsidized, to keep people in decent standard of living and having something to do.

[Xort]

Smart grid and infrastructure – 3,200
Energy efficiency and building envelope – 8,100
Clean transportation – 5,700

I have some questions about those green jobs.

Like do those smart grid workers work for the utility companies and are just doing their ongoing upgrades to the electrical grid? If so they don't count, that's not a green job, that's a electrical utility job.

The efficiency and building envelope, are those just the same construction workers using new materials and methods? Are they factories making higher efficiency appliances and building materials? Just who is counted.

And for the clean transport, is that workers making clean transport, people that use higher efficacy vehicles? Is that just the makers of natural gas conversion kits and cab drivers? Or is someone in Canada making a green car out of recycled liberal BS?

Because any metal is a dirty industry by environmentalist standards, so is any fossil fuel, manufacturing process that uses energy or any other number of BS requirements. Are their 5,700 workers making cars in their backyard shop with hand tools from dead fall lumber?

[BeaverFever]

$1:

Like do those smart grid workers work for the utility companies and are just doing their ongoing upgrades to the electrical grid? If so they don't count, that's not a green job, that's a electrical utility job.

If you read through, you'll see that only private sector jobs are counted. But an electical utility job in the private sector would and should count as "green energy" job if it's green...why wouldn't it?

[BeaverFever]

$1:

The spin-off jobs from any industry are NOT irrelevant to the overall scenario

Perhaps the only releveant criticism made in this discussion...thank you. That said, I'm not so sure that the authors are tyring to say that spin-off jobs are irrelevant.

[BeaverFever]

martin14 martin14:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

8O

Holy shit! Did I just see that?

Yup, BF just got BTFO by none other than JJ.

Next week, live comcast of hell freezing over.

Aaa ha. I think he meant 'holy shit! Did I just see JJ write a semi -non-trolling, semi-articulate post?'

The answer is no, jj's post is an improperly cited copy-paste from the link he posted, which is a blog post full of inaccuracies, written by a calgary real estate agent with no expert qualifications on the subject, who has a side job shilling for the oilsands on social media..

Yeah, this guy:

[martin14]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

which is a blog post full of inaccuracies, written by a calgary real estate agent with no expert qualifications on the subject, who has a side job shilling for the oilsands on social media..

Yeah, this guy:

You really shouldn't be talking about inaccurate misleading stuff today, written by shills.

[andyt]

Fact is, their claim is 100% accurate, but people can't read. As they say, they're just trying to point out that the green energy sector is growing fast, and compared it to something we can all relate to. No claim that the green sector matches the conventional energy sector, just that the green sector, Canada wide, employs about the same number of people as the oil sands do - directly in both cases. I believe it was peck who raised the question about how much energy those greenies produce compared to the oilsands, but that ratio will also change as green energy becomes more efficient - it's a new, developing industry.

The criticism against Harper is that he's not getting on board in helping this industry grow. We don't want to get left behind, should be one of the leaders in the field.

[martin14]

andyt andyt:

Fact is, their claim is 100% accurate, but people can't read.

No andy, people can read quite well, and they know false equivalence bullshit when they see it.

Even the Globe's own comments prove that you are the one who has no idea what you are talking about. Not one iota of support for the article.

BF, being a left wing retarded eco weenie, jumped on this serious fail by the Globe
because it fits his level of knowledge outside Toronto.

[bootlegga]

My reply to this article is so what?

Who cares if more people work in the entirety of green industry jobs than work in one sector (oil sands) of the oil industry?

It's an asinine comparison - I can just as easily say there are more people working in retail than there are working in the solar industry in Canada. There are certainly more people flipping burgers in Canada than work in the fusion industry here.

If you want to look at it honestly, you need to look at all the jobs that spin-off from each industry (and that's the entire industry, not just one sector in it). At the same time, you need to look at the economic benefits of each industry (again, as a whole, not just this sector or that).

And the economic benefits of the oil sands is massive - billions of dollars are spent across the nation supporting the oilsands, as well as billions of dollars in tax revenues, nevermind the 90,000 or people who move to Alberta each year from the rest of Canada last year to get better jobs.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

andyt andyt:

It makes more sense to be efficient and use robots, but the wealth generated by those robots needs to be distributed to the population and not just the owners of the robots.

That's the silliest thing I think you've ever written.

"It makes more sense to be efficient and use power tools, but the wealth generated by those power tools needs to be distributed to the population and not just the owners of the power tools."

Guess what, it's already happening. We already have income redistribution in this country. But as we mechanize more and more jobs, putting people out of work, we just have to make that system more effective. Plenty of dystopian SciFi has been written about what happens when you create a permanent underclass while mechanization does the work. Mechanization is moving ever higher up the skill chain - turns out it's very easy to make algorithms to do work we find complex - eg engineering, even lawyering. So one day you may also find yourself replaced by machine and come to see the issue from a different perspective. It's the soft skills that are hard to mechanize, the ones we don't value very much, often. Those need to be paid decent wages, even if subsidized, to keep people in decent standard of living and having something to do.

Any economy that has taxes has income redistribution. But we do not give Carpenters an extra burden for any project they use a power saw with, because other people don't have power saws. And make no mistake, industrial robots are nothing more than programmable power tools.

As Lemmy has shown you in the past as well, your delusion that industrial robots put people out of work is false. They increase productivity, and perform tasks that people didn't perform anyhow. They do the jobs people weren't doing anyhow, and they do it faster and cheaper than people could.

As Bart also rightly points out, making companies pay extra because they choose higher and cheaper methods of productivity will only result in less investment in the economy and a reduction in our standard of living. Everyone loses in that world.

[DrCaleb]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

martin14 martin14:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

8O

Holy shit! Did I just see that?

Yup, BF just got BTFO by none other than JJ.

Next week, live comcast of hell freezing over.

Aaa ha. I think he meant 'holy shit! Did I just see JJ write a semi -non-trolling, semi-articulate post?'

The answer is no, jj's post is an improperly cited copy-paste from the link he posted, which is a blog post full of inaccuracies, written by a calgary real estate agent with no expert qualifications on the subject, who has a side job shilling for the oilsands on social media..

^^ That. I had to read it a few times, because I can usually identify the author (of people on this board) by the grammar and syntax used. I read it and read it, and there was no way JJ wrote it. Unless it was the very first time he wrote a well defended rebuttal. It was the lack of insults and disdain for 'lefties' that gave it away.

[jj2424]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

martin14 martin14:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

8O

Holy shit! Did I just see that?

Yup, BF just got BTFO by none other than JJ.

Next week, live comcast of hell freezing over.

Aaa ha. I think he meant 'holy shit! Did I just see JJ write a semi -non-trolling, semi-articulate post?'

The answer is no, jj's post is an improperly cited copy-paste from the link he posted, which is a blog post full of inaccuracies, written by a calgary real estate agent with no expert qualifications on the subject, who has a side job shilling for the oilsands on social media..

Yeah, this guy:

"side job shilling...."

I would like for you to prove that he gets paid to "shill" for oil.

Link please.

Like many Albertans he simply got tired of the left winged foreign funded BS and lies spewed by the media.

[jj2424]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

martin14 martin14:

Yup, BF just got BTFO by none other than JJ.

Next week, live comcast of hell freezing over.

Aaa ha. I think he meant 'holy shit! Did I just see JJ write a semi -non-trolling, semi-articulate post?'

The answer is no, jj's post is an improperly cited copy-paste from the link he posted, which is a blog post full of inaccuracies, written by a calgary real estate agent with no expert qualifications on the subject, who has a side job shilling for the oilsands on social media..

^^ That. I had to read it a few times, because I can usually identify the author (of people on this board) by the grammar and syntax used. I read it and read it, and there was no way JJ wrote it. Unless it was the very first time he wrote a well defended rebuttal. It was the lack of insults and disdain for 'lefties' that gave it away.

Oh shove it up your arse. I provided the link with the post. Are you that friggen stupid?