[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

And you think this demonstrates that the cops and justice system treat blacks equally to whites? Take a look at who's getting shot,

According to FBI stats it's White people, by a sizable margin.

andyt andyt:

who's getting falsely convicted,

In Canada at least, it is predominantly White people

andyt andyt:

who's getting stopped by the police,

If you have reliable stats on the number of police stops breaking down the demographics of those who are stopped, I'd be much obliged.

andyt andyt:

who's getting the harsher sentences, etc. As I said before, a preponderance of dusky hued folks. One white guy (possibly) getting a raw deal doesn't mean that the police and justice system are color blind.

From what I've been able to glean, the only time that Blacks seem to get harsher sentences is when it involves drugs.
Where things really get out of whack is the under 25 age group. However, when looking at the age group of 40 and over, the US prison population is predominantly White. This leads to one of two conclusions, either White people continue to commit far more crimes well into their 40s and 50s than Black people, or they are serving very long sentences despite your assurances that Blacks get harsher sentencing.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

either White people continue to commit far more crimes well into their 40s and 50s than Black people

Other black men make sure a lot of black men don't make it into their 40s and 50s

[Xort]

It's both an issue of the loss of respect for the police, and a black white issue.

When some white people get really pissed off at the police or law enforcement, they move out in mostly organized and controlled manner with as many firearms as they can get their hands on.

Situation the Brady Ranch. Government backed down and decided it wasn't time for another Waco, or Ruby Ridge.

When some black people get really pissed off at the police, they tend to have a fairly low level of control and organization. Claims of police provocateurs not withstanding. The last big event that rolled into lawlessness was the LA riots like 2 decades ago.

It can be hard to control a nebulous group of people often with members that honestly don't care about the core issue. But the core members that do care don't seem to really get together.

In this case, what do you think would happen if 100 black men showed up to escort the police armed with rifles and shotguns to ensure the police didn't feel the need to use lethal force to protect themselves because they had backup all around them?

It's intimidation, but it's the same sort of thing that got the US federal government to back down after the government escalated the situation in the Brady case.

The police and government must never forget that they are the manifest will of the people, not an outside force trying to control the population, like prison guards or an occupying military.

[Xort]

Abbas786 Abbas786:

This is due to their economical conditions. If white people were subjected to the same conditions as black people in USA than I am sure white people would behave the same way.

Well that's clearly false as you can look at mostly white areas with shocking amounts of poverty and their crime patterns while higher than wealthier areas are nothing like what you find in areas with very high black populations (70%+).

More white people live in poverty in the US than their are black people in the US. And while white people commit most of the crimes, that's because they are around 62% of the population (or 77% if you accept 'having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa', because when someone says white people I think North Africans and the Middle East.)

Bottom line, you can't just blame black crime on black poverty. That's simplistic and false.

$1:

The problem is that when someone is shot by a police officer, there should be strict investigation as to what happened. Its difficult for American courts to proceed with a trial like this because an officers statement holds more weight than a civilians statement. In this case, the officer should be tried and all evidence should be looked at without giving any one side the upper hand. It seems like that is not what happened so people are pissed off.

The grand jury system is almost comically broken. Most grand juries accept charges with less than 30s on review of the case and have a 99.99% acceptance of the state recommendation.

For them to constantly refuse to send police officer to trail for highly questionable actions is unacceptable.




One of these men went to trail and had to defend their use of lethal force after being attacked, one of them is a police officer and was found to have done nothing wrong.

[Freakinoldguy]

Abbas786 Abbas786:

ShepherdsDog ShepherdsDog:

$1:

either White people continue to commit far more crimes well into their 40s and 50s than Black people

Other black men make sure a lot of black men don't make it into their 40s and 50s

This is due to their economical conditions. If white people were subjected to the same conditions as black people in USA than I am sure white people would behave the same way. The problem is that when someone is shot by a police officer, there should be strict investigation as to what happened. Its difficult for American courts to proceed with a trial like this because an officers statement holds more weight than a civilians statement. In this case, the officer should be tried and all evidence should be looked at without giving any one side the upper hand. It seems like that is not what happened so people are pissed off.

I'm sorry but it wasn't the police officers statement that got the Grand Jury to rule there was not enough evidence to indict Officer Wilson. It was witness statements by people including black people, forensics and video evidence.

So don't get caught up in the media hype trying to turn this into a civil rights case because if isn't. It's a case of a kid robbing a store then for whatever reason becoming overly aggressive and attacking a peace officer with tragic results.

Here's an interesting take on the grand jury's decision but I suppose it shouldn't count because given the current criteria about truth is that if the author of the piece is "white" then it must be just another racist rant aimed at black people.

[raydan]

Xort Xort:

I've hurt myself worse than than hiking...


...did not shoot the trees because of it.

[OnTheIce]

Unsound Unsound:

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

andyt andyt:

Well they don't always work - vis Rodney King trial. The Justice system does screw over blacks, so that you're going to get a reaction even when it's not warranted..

You can only get "screwed over" by the system if you get into it in the first place.

If we stop the "blame whitey" game and look at root causes of such problems, we'd be much further ahead.

We don't need half-wits like you spouting off that black people get 'screwed'. You don't help the problem.

So you don't believe that law enforcement and the justice system treat blacks differently than whites?

I think law enforcement treats people differently based on a host of things. The way they look, their skin colour, the car they drive, etc.

I used to be one of those young guys with a fancy car and got pulled over constantly and checked for illegal exhaust, etc. Why? Street racing was a huge thing and most of the people acting like idiots were young men in highly modified cars. Today, 15 years later, I have a car that's far more flashy and haven't seen those lights in my rear view once.

I expect police to treat people differently from situation to situation based on statistics and if we don't like those decisions, we need to change those statistics.

[andyt]

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/11/25/ra ... d-to-know/

$1:

Summary

There seems to be a strong racial bias in capital punishment and a moderate racial bias in sentence length and decision to jail.

There is ambiguity over the level of racial bias, depending on whose studies you want to believe and how strictly you define “racial bias”, in police stops, police shootings in certain jurisdictions, and arrests for minor drug offenses.

There seems to be little or no racial bias in arrests for serious violent crime, police shootings in most jurisdictions, prosecutions, or convictions.

Overall I disagree with the City Journal claim that there is no evidence of racial bias in the justice system.

But I also disagree with the people who say things like “Every part of America’s criminal justice is systemically racist by design” or “White people can get away with murder but black people are constantly persecuted for any minor infraction,” or “Every black person has to live in fear of the police all the time in a way no white person can possibly understand”. The actual level of bias is limited and detectable only through statistical aggregation of hundreds or thousands of cases, is only unambiguously present in sentencing, and there only at a level of 10-20%, and that only if you believe the most damning studies.

(except that you should probably stay out of Memphis)

It would be nice to say that this shows the criminal justice system is not disproportionately harming blacks, but unfortunately it doesn’t come anywhere close to showing anything of the sort. There are still many ways it can indirectly harm blacks without being explicitly racist. Anatole France famously said that “the law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich as well as poor people from begging for bread and sleeping under bridges”, and in the same way that the laws France cites, be they enforced ever so fairly, would still disproportionately target poor people, so other laws can, even when fairly enforced, target black people. The classic example of this is crack cocaine – a predominantly black drug – carrying a higher sentence than other whiter drugs. Even if the police are scrupulously fair in giving the same sentence to black and white cokeheads, the law will still have a disproportionate effect.

There are also entire classes of laws that are much easier on rich people than poor people – for example, any you can get out of by having a good lawyer – and entire classes of police work that are harsher on poor neighborhoods than rich neighborhoods. If the average black is poorer than the average white, then these laws would have disproportionate racial effects.

For more information on this, I would recommend Tonry and Melewski’s Malign Neglect: Race, Crime, and Punishment in America. They begin by saying everything above is true – the system mostly avoids direct racist bias against black people – and go on to say argue quite consistently that we still have a system where (their words) “recent punishment policies have replaced the urban ghetto, Jim Crow laws, and slavery as a mechanism for maintaining white dominance over blacks in the United States”. If you want something that makes the strongest case for the justice system harming blacks, written by real criminologists who know what they’re talking about, there’s your best bet.

(warning: I haven’t read the book. I did read a review article by the same people, which the book is partially based on)

[Xort]

raydan raydan:

...did not shoot the trees because of it.

Did you stop the tree from beating you more or just let it keep pounding on you till you were dead?

Are you a ghost?

[Baddragon]

Xort Xort:

raydan raydan:

...did not shoot the trees because of it.

Did you stop the tree from beating you more or just let it keep pounding on you till you were dead?

Are you a ghost?

Those f#$king trees, always laying about causing trouble.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

Reverberations of the Ferguson events were evident at the St. Louis Rams' game.

Inside the dome, five Rams players engaged in their own apparent show of solidarity for Ferguson protesters, standing with their arms raised in a "Hands Up" gesture before trotting onto the field for pregame introductions. All five — Tavon Austin, Kenny Britt, Stedman Bailey, Jared Cook and Chris Givens — are black.

After the game, about 100 protesters marched in the area near the Edward Jones Dome, chanting, "Ram fans — join the movement." When about three dozen St. Louis officers in riot gear showed up to make sure things didn't get out of hand, many of the fans broke out in spontaneous applause for the officers.

This sort of reflects the reality of the public's perceptions of the police outside of thug culture.

[BartSimpson]

raydan raydan:

I've hurt myself worse than than hiking...


...did not shoot the trees because of it.

The trees were not holding you on the ground and poundingyour head into the pavement.

Also, don't forget that George Zimmerman is just as white as Barack Obama is.

[Public_Domain]

[raydan]

Combine...
- carry or carry conceal
- the right that most Americans believe they have to resist arrest any way possible if they think the arrest is unjustified
- stand your ground
...and it really doesn't surprise me that their police officers have itchy trigger fingers.