[andyt]

or a cannibal

[DrCaleb]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Xort Xort:

We already treat animals far better than they would find in nature. We already have exceeded the standard of animals. I don't think that poking an animal or kicking it is wildly out of line given that very soon it's going to be killed then chopped up into parts and then eaten.

In the end the treatment of the animal in the last hours of it's life are less critical to me than my final price.

You really are living in a rainbow unicorn land. Bullshit. 'Nature' is the only way to treat animals like 'nature'. All else is unnatural. And farm animals have a standard of living that was once reserved only for the very best human concentration camps.

I've worked in a slaughterhouse, and this video is pretty tame. I've seen a pig beaten to death with a 2x4 because it didn't move down the line fast enough. It was beaten so bad it couldn't walk. It's back was broken, and so were both back legs. But it was still forced down the down the line, dragging it's broken legs behind it, and still slaughtered. And every other pig in the line behind it also knew the horror that was coming. And that was just one incident I can recall. The sad part is the other thousands of animals who I put a spike into their brain I hardly recall at all.

Their last minutes for the pigs behind that one were filled with a terror I don't wish on any living creature. That's why I only eat meat from sources I know, usually from a farmer who slaughters on his own property where the animals don't have to be penned up for hours or days or weeks before they meet their end. Or fish. Fish aren't that bright.

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Those pigs know what is happening on the other side. Your not going to move them by motivational wisdom, telling them sh*t like " com'on let"s do this for Aronld Ziffle, the most famous pig of all time." isn't going to work.

Remember their not puppies and kitten's

In many ways, yes they are. Pigs like to play. Pigs like to cuddle. They have feelings and moods. Don't anyone kid yourself. Many animals like and dislike the same things we do and have the same emotions we do.

My philosophy is simple; if I wouldn't do it to a person, I shouldn't do it to an animal.

So by your philosophy, we can assume you're a vegan?

Where did I say that?

[PublicAnimalNo9]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

You really are living in a rainbow unicorn land. Bullshit. 'Nature' is the only way to treat animals like 'nature'. All else is unnatural. And farm animals have a standard of living that was once reserved only for the very best human concentration camps.

I've worked in a slaughterhouse, and this video is pretty tame. I've seen a pig beaten to death with a 2x4 because it didn't move down the line fast enough. It was beaten so bad it couldn't walk. It's back was broken, and so were both back legs. But it was still forced down the down the line, dragging it's broken legs behind it, and still slaughtered. And every other pig in the line behind it also knew the horror that was coming. And that was just one incident I can recall. The sad part is the other thousands of animals who I put a spike into their brain I hardly recall at all.

Their last minutes for the pigs behind that one were filled with a terror I don't wish on any living creature. That's why I only eat meat from sources I know, usually from a farmer who slaughters on his own property where the animals don't have to be penned up for hours or days or weeks before they meet their end. Or fish. Fish aren't that bright.


My philosophy is simple; if I wouldn't do it to a person, I shouldn't do it to an animal.

So by your philosophy, we can assume you're a vegan?

Where did I say that?

Your last sentence.

$1:

...if I wouldn't do it to a person, I shouldn't do it to an animal.

I can safely assume that under normal circumstances, you don't eat people?

Relax Doc, I'm just having some fun with you.

[DrCaleb]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

My philosophy is simple; if I wouldn't do it to a person, I shouldn't do it to an animal.

Your last sentence.

$1:

...if I wouldn't do it to a person, I shouldn't do it to an animal.

I can safely assume that under normal circumstances, you don't eat people?

Relax Doc, I'm just having some fun with you.

I know, I just get uppity when people quote me out of context. Especially when I said just a few sentences earlier "That's why I only eat meat from sources I know. . . Or fish. Fish aren't that bright."

I've often championed Doctor assisted suicide for the terminally ill, and even for prisoners who have no hope of release. I'd even go so far as to bring back the noose or firing squad as compared to the latest lethal injection fiascos. And serial rapists should just be given a rusty razor blade and some privacy.

Given that context, I don't see how a farmer taking a hog into it's barn when all the other pigs are out rooting for walnuts, and using a air tool to pith it in the brain stem while it munches unaware on an apple is any different than how I'd treat people.

[Alta_redneck]

Remember their not puppies and kitten's

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

In many ways, yes they are. Pigs like to play. Pigs like to cuddle. They have feelings and moods. Don't anyone kid yourself. Many animals like and dislike the same things we do and have the same emotions we do.

How many 250lb pigs do you have sleeping in your bed?

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

My philosophy is simple; if I wouldn't do it to a person, I shouldn't do it to an animal.

Your comparing pets, to animals raised for food, go back to posting your climate change stories. Or tell us how to move 9000 hogs a day from truck to the executioner, you've been there done that, tell us.

[DrCaleb]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Remember their not puppies and kitten's

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

In many ways, yes they are. Pigs like to play. Pigs like to cuddle. They have feelings and moods. Don't anyone kid yourself. Many animals like and dislike the same things we do and have the same emotions we do.

How many 250lb pigs do you have sleeping in your bed?

Now, there's no need to bring my girlfriend into this. She's done nothing to you.

Joking aside, I take it you don;t know anyone who has a pig as a pet? Too bad, they make good pets.

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

My philosophy is simple; if I wouldn't do it to a person, I shouldn't do it to an animal.

Your comparing pets, to animals raised for food, go back to posting your climate change stories. Or tell us how to move 9000 hogs a day from truck to the executioner, you've been there done that, tell us.

See above. Don't bring the hogs to the executioner, bring the executioner to the hogs. Don't pen them up in close quarters for days and weeks before execution. Execute them in a setting where they will be as least stressed as possible.

Something I'd advocate for people as well.

[Zipperfish]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Remember their not puppies and kitten's

What difference does that make? Shouldn't it just be a general principle not to engage in wanton cruelty with any animal? Shouldn't it be a general principle that we expect these abbatoirs to ensure their workers are conforming to policy?

[ShepherdsDog]

The only time we ate meat bought solely from a grocery store was when we were overseas. The rest of the time, we bought meat from people we knew or family. As a kid, my dad was a hobby farmer and we raised all our own meat. Some of the calves I bottle fed. The pigs were kept in a pen and the chickens and turkeys were all 'free range' for the most part, some of the chickens going to local raptors. Many of the animals(chickens, turkeys and beef) we butchered, although most of the butcher sows went to the abattoir.

Along with domestic meat we also had venison, duck, goose and fish that we had killed and prepped. We killed these animals for food, not for trophies or for kicks. We always attempted to kill quickly if not instantaneously(if possible)....oh god some radical vegan is going on about how 'meat culture' is an expression of man's violence and cruelty....ffs.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

You didn't answer my question. How do you get an animal to move into a building or part of the building that it doesn't want to go into?

You answered a different question, that I didn't ask. A sort of question version of the strawman fallacy.

Answer the question I asked.

Lets see what CFIA regulations have to say:

$1:

At the time of arrival at a federally registered processing plant, any non-ambulatory animal will be held in the truck. An inspector or company staff should immediately inform the responsible CFIA veterinarian of the animal's arrival. Barn personnel should be directed not to open the animal compartment until the veterinarian arrives, unless it becomes necessary to do so for animal welfare purposes, such as unloading ambulatory animals or attending to a non-ambulatory animal. This permits the veterinarian to observe the conditions under which the non-ambulatory animal was transported. It also prevents those animals that want to crawl off from doing so, or from being encouraged to do so.


Options for Dealing With Non-Ambulatory Animals at the Plant

Failure to meet any of the conditions outlined below would subject animals to injury or undue suffering, which is not in compliance with the Health of Animals Regulations, Part XII, or with Part III of the Meat Inspection Regulations, 1990.


Option 1 - Euthanize on Truck

Option 2 - Stun on Truck
A. Stun and bleed the animal out on the truck in a sanitary manner
B. Stun the animal on the truck and unload the unconscious live animal to the bleeding area

Stressed Hogs

The transportation of stressed hogs poses serious animal welfare concerns. As a result of various factors, such as weather, transportation, temperature, and rough handling, hogs can easily become stressed.

Stressed hogs may exhibit any combination of the following symptoms:
•difficulty breathing or open-mouth breathing, panting, or gasping (dyspnea, tachypnea);
•blotchy skin (irregular skin blanching and erythema);
•high body temperature (hyperthermia) > 103 degrees Fahrenheit;
•refuse to move (with no other visible abnormalities);
•inability to rise;
•sudden death (with no other visible abnormalities, other than open-mouth breathing, dyspnea, tachypnea); and/or
•trembling.

"refuse to move" can be described as the behaviour of a hog that does not keep up with its herd mates, that will not move when asked or moves very slowly and with great difficulty, and that is very stiff. These stressed hogs will often go down if prodded or forced to move.

Subsection 138(2) of the Health of Animals Regulations prohibits the transportation and the loading and unloading of non-ambulatory animals. No person must load or cause to be loaded or transport or cause to be transported an animal that is non-ambulatory, except for the purposes of veterinary treatment or diagnosis. Unloading a non-ambulatory animal before it has been stunned, or causing such an animal to be unloaded, is unacceptable and is a contravention of the Health of Animals Regulations.

Subsection 139(2) of the Health of Animals Regulations prohibits the transportation and the loading and unloading of animals in a way that is likely to cause injury or undue suffering.

Unloading of stressed ambulatory hogs can result in a worsened condition and even death. Stressed hogs, either ambulatory or non-ambulatory, that are trembling, have patchy skin discolouration and have laboured breathing must not be unloaded in a conscious state.

Some stressed hogs will recover if given sufficient time. Others will continue to deteriorate, eventually dying from cardiac arrest. If recovery of the hog is believed to be possible (the animal is not trembling, does not have patchy skin discolouration and does not have laboured breathing), provisions must be taken to ensure the animal is protected from other animals, and the waiting period cannot be so unreasonably long as to cause undue stress (in contravention of the Health of Animals Regulations and the Meat Inspection Regulations, 1990).

It is important to ensure that stressed hogs are handled humanely at all times.


Transport With Special Provisions - Compromised

An animal is compromised if:
•it has an acute penis injury;
•it has acute frostbite;
•it is bloated (if not weak or already down);
•it has laboured breathing;
•it has blindness in both eyes;
•it has an open wound or laceration (depending on the severity of the wound, the animal may be unfit);
•it is an amputee;
•it has not fully healed after an operation, such as dehorning or castration;
•it has given birth in the preceding 48 hours;
•it has rectal or vaginal prolapse;
•it is lame;*
•it is hobbled to prevent kicking;
•it is in heavy lactation (animals in heavy lactation requiring milking every 12 hours, or they will become unfit for transport); or
•it has squamous cell carcinoma, Stage 2 or 3.


Transportation of a compromised animal without special provisions that results in undue suffering is non-compliant with Section 138(2)(a) of the Health of Animals Regulations.

http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals/ter ... 0016435110

And as I said (and as you continue to ignore) alot of the pigs' mobility issues arise from poor handingling in the first place: herding too many pigs into too small an area, herding them into a poorly designed area (i.e. too dark, uneven flooring, etc., stressing the pigs with agressive handling, standing in the wrong spot (i.e. standing infront of a pig's shoulders will cause it to back up, not go forward), too hot, too cold, kicking and beating the pig, lame/hobbled pigs etc. Solve all of those systemic problems first and we can deal with your mythical sceario of the one evil pig in a perfect, calming setting who is able to move but refuses to obey its kind and loving handlers.

[Alta_redneck]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I take it you don;t know anyone who has a pig as a pet? Too bad, they make good pets.

Their little baby pigs until they grow up and then no one wants them, then those city people take them out into the country and dump them, hoping a farmer will take care of it. And a farmer will, right until he loads it on the truck to be taken to market.

Pot belly pigs were once the pet of the day, now there's shelters that rescue them from owners that don't find them cute and cuddly anymore.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

My philosophy is simple; if I wouldn't do it to a person, I shouldn't do it to an animal.

Your comparing pets, to animals raised for food, go back to posting your climate change stories. Or tell us how to move 9000 hogs a day from truck to the executioner, you've been there done that, tell us.[/quote]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

See above. Don't bring the hogs to the executioner, bring the executioner to the hogs. Don't pen them up in close quarters for days and weeks before execution. Execute them in a setting where they will be as least stressed as possible.

Can't be bothered replying to stupid sh*t like this. ^^^^

Something I'd advocate for people as well.[/quote]

[DrCaleb]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Can't be bothered replying to stupid sh*t like this. ^^^^

Should I have used shorter words?

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

See above. Don't bring the hogs to the executioner, bring the executioner to the hogs. Don't pen them up in close quarters for days and weeks before execution. Execute them in a setting where they will be as least stressed as possible.

Something I'd advocate for people as well.

It's actually a business model. Quite a growth industry too.

http://www.mobilemeatprocessing.com/

[Alta_redneck]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Remember their not puppies and kitten's

What difference does that make? Shouldn't it just be a general principle not to engage in wanton cruelty with any animal? Shouldn't it be a general principle that we expect these abbatoirs to ensure their workers are conforming to policy?

Does holding a 10 day old pigglet by the hind legs, draped over the top rail of it's pen to get it's nuts cut out, and with a slash of Iodine tossed back into the some what dirty pen, constitute animal abuse. NO!

But if the same farmer does that to their dog, then yes it is. Funny how that sh*t works.

If a farmer has a sick pig he can go in and shoot it, drag it out and put it on the pile with the rest of the dead ones until the meat wagon comes. If he has to many dogs or cats around and he thins them out by shooting them he can be charged with animal abuse.

[Zipperfish]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Does holding a 10 day old pigglet by the hind legs, draped over the top rail of it's pen to get it's nuts cut out, and with a slash of Iodine tossed back into the some what dirty pen, constitute animal abuse. NO!

But if the same farmer does that to their dog, then yes it is. Funny how that sh*t works.

If a farmer has a sick pig he can go in and shoot it, drag it out and put it on the pile with the rest of the dead ones until the meat wagon comes. If he has to many dogs or cats around and he thins them out by shooting them he can be charged with animal abuse.

Whatever. Empathy is something you have or you don't have, I guess.

[Alta_redneck]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Can't be bothered replying to stupid sh*t like this. ^^^^

Should I have used shorter words?

Oh not again, funny how you take liberty at pointing out someone might not be smart just because you can't convince them to agree on your constant chicken little bullshit.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

See above. Don't bring the hogs to the executioner, bring the executioner to the hogs. Don't pen them up in close quarters for days and weeks before execution. Execute them in a setting where they will be as least stressed as possible.

Something I'd advocate for people as well.

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It's actually a business model. Quite a growth industry too.

http://www.mobilemeatprocessing.com/

It's a growth industry is it.?

$1:

Northern Alberta livestock producers hope a new mobile abattoir will give them more opportunities to sell their livestock.

The Municipal District of Big Lake bought the 53 foot mobile abattoir from Olds College, but it would like to sell it to local producers who could form a traditional co-operative or a new generation co-op.

“Every producer in the area could benefit from it,” said Eric Verstappen of High Prairie, Alta., who spearheaded the purchase of the mobile slaughter facility.

Olds spent $300,000 in government money to build the trailer, but sold it to the municipal district for $70,500.

http://www.producer.com/2011/08/norther ... -abattoir/

Their flying right out of the manufacturer aren't they.

$70,500? that's cheaper than a Tri Axle Possum Belly cattle-liner @ around $84,000.

And then you still need another facility to hang that meat for a month, all this is doing, is creating a second middle man that farmers aren't going to pay for.

Another thing I find interesting is that there is no info more recent than 2011, could it be someone's pipe dream than never panned out?

A growth industry? naw I don't think so.

[DrCaleb]

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Can't be bothered replying to stupid sh*t like this. ^^^^

Should I have used shorter words?

Oh not again, funny how you take liberty at pointing out someone might not be smart just because you can't convince them to agree on your constant chicken little bullshit.

Don't start fights you aren't willing to finish. I never call people names. Did you think you'd be able to do so twice in this thread unchallenged?

And it's not my bullshit. People much smarter and better informed than you or I have come to these conclusions.

Alta_redneck Alta_redneck:

Another thing I find interesting is that there is no info more recent than 2011, could it be someone's pipe dream than never panned out?

A growth industry? naw I don't think so.

Your Google-Fu is weak. I find many current stories.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/20 ... hterhouses