[Hyack]

This whole issue definitely reminds me of Tom Clancy's novel Threat Vector, with China waging cyber warfare against the US while at the same time using conventional weapons against her neighbours in the South China Sea. It doesn't end well (of course) for the instigators, thanks to John Clark and associates.

[Public_Domain]

[DundasBill]

I wonder who Canada would support in the event of a US - China war?

[BartSimpson]

peck420 peck420:

That is a little unsettling, Bart.

That screams of persons looking for something very specific.

Oh yes it does. And while the sum of the actions are very clear to me it amazes me how many people so willingly think that someone would conduct an attack on a substation with military precision and with intense planning and then accept the notion that the target of such an attack was trivial and unimportant.

[BartSimpson]

DundasBill DundasBill:

I wonder who Canada would support in the event of a US - China war?

If Canada supports the US then we'll still be friends when the dust settles. If Canada supports China then I expect the UK won't complain when we annex some new territory north of Detroit.

But seriously...

Even if Andy were your PM he wouldn't be insane enough to contemplate having Canada side with China against the US.

I think the worst *any* Canadian leader would do in such a conflict is just stay out of it. No one up there is crazy enough to take on the US as an ally of China.

[bootlegga]

DundasBill DundasBill:

I wonder who Canada would support in the event of a US - China war?

It probably would all depend on how it started.

If China launched a sneak attack on US forces/bases in the region, I have little doubt we'd join in. We might also join if China invaded Taiwan and if the Americans tried to get the UN onboard (like they tried for Gulf War 2 in 2003).

If the Chinese used cyber warfare - as Peck suggested they might - and took down the power grid (which is linked to the US grids), then we most certainly would get involved.

If American or Taiwanese actions caused the conflict, we'd probably stay out of it.

No matter how you slice though, our ability to participate is severely limited - most of the Pacific fleet is tied up and our air force is probably too out of date to deploy there and make a difference. We'd barely be able to attach a Halifax frigate to a USN carrier battlegroup.

[DundasBill]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No one up there is crazy enough to take on the US as an ally of China.

Don't be so sure. The are a lot of Chinese immigrants in Canada with deep feelings for the motherland and a lot of native Canadians with deep feelings of dislike for the US. If the Chinese would guarantee to protect us in the event of a US attack and compensate us economically for the loss of American trade I could see a lot of Canadians considering it.

[BartSimpson]

bootlegga bootlegga:

No matter how you slice though, our ability to participate is severely limited - most of the Pacific fleet is tied up and our air force is probably too out of date to deploy there and make a difference. We'd barely be able to attach a Halifax frigate to a USN carrier battlegroup.

I disagree. Canada's participation and contribution would be critical for defending North America while the US military was busy with the furball in the Western Pacific.

Don't forget that Canadian fighters have been performing CAP over US cities several times in the past decade while US fighters were busy elsewhere and don't forget that the Canadian Navy was the first to get into New Orleans after Katrina.

I know we make sport of the CF on here but the fact remains that sometimes the CF is absolutely perfect for certain tasks.

[Canadian_Mind]

Just because parts of Canadian cities have large chinese populations doesn't automatically mean we'll side with china. We have plenty of other ethic groups as well, and too much history to side with the states. Besides, I don't trust the quasi-authoritarian chinks to have my best interests at heart, and niether do many other people.

[BartSimpson]

DundasBill DundasBill:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No one up there is crazy enough to take on the US as an ally of China.

Don't be so sure. The are a lot of Chinese immigrants in Canada with deep feelings for the motherland and a lot of native Canadians with deep feelings of dislike for the US. If the Chinese would guarantee to protect us in the event of a US attack and compensate us economically for the loss of American trade I could see a lot of Canadians considering it.

Chinese guarantees.

[bootlegga]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

bootlegga bootlegga:

No matter how you slice though, our ability to participate is severely limited - most of the Pacific fleet is tied up and our air force is probably too out of date to deploy there and make a difference. We'd barely be able to attach a Halifax frigate to a USN carrier battlegroup.

I disagree. Canada's participation and contribution would be critical for defending North America while the US military was busy with the furball in the Western Pacific.

Don't forget that Canadian fighters have been performing CAP over US cities several times in the past decade while US fighters were busy elsewhere and don't forget that the Canadian Navy was the first to get into New Orleans after Katrina.

I know we make sport of the CF on here but the fact remains that sometimes the CF is absolutely perfect for certain tasks.

I certainly don't take any joy in making that announcement, but it sadly is an honest assessment of our current capabilities.

Sure we could run CAP missions over NA, like we already do, but let's be honest, the Chinese don't have much of anything that can fly this far, so it's not really that big a contribution. I suppose a few H-6s and an aerial tanker or two could fly one way to try and hit our coastal cities, but with a range of 2000 km, even that is a stretch.

And yes, ships from our Atlantic Fleet (MARLANT) was on scene after Katrina very quickly - but in a war with China, we'd use our Pacific Fleet squadron (MARPAC), and the AOR and DDH are both out of commission due to accidents. What's worse is that neither may ever serve again because of the costs of repairs and the age of the ships. IIRC, only one of the three of the Victoria SSKs is in service.

That leaves a few Halifax FFHs, which while capable enough to join a USN task group, are simply not powerful enough or capable of engaging in a mission on the other side of the Pacific unassisted.

I sure hope that we get the Single Class Surface Combatant DDHs going soon, as that would certainly change things, especially with our new AORs slated to come into service by the end of the decade.

Once those hulls are in service, our ability to contribute changes, but until then we are sadly a minnow power in the Pacific.

[BartSimpson]

Well, if a Republican (or maybe even Hillary) gets into the White Hut in 2017 perhaps Canada can tap some of that military aid we keep sending to Egypt and etc.

Ask for it in the form of aircraft and ships that would be built in the USA and I've no doubt our Congress would approve it.

[QBC]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DundasBill DundasBill:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

No one up there is crazy enough to take on the US as an ally of China.

Don't be so sure. The are a lot of Chinese immigrants in Canada with deep feelings for the motherland and a lot of native Canadians with deep feelings of dislike for the US. If the Chinese would guarantee to protect us in the event of a US attack and compensate us economically for the loss of American trade I could see a lot of Canadians considering it.

Chinese guarantees.

As opposed to American Guarantees.....

[Goober911]

How much does the US Military and their systems depend upon satellites?
What would the impact be if that capability was degraded by 20 to 40 %?
How would it affect weapons capabilities?
How would it impact on the 3 C's?

[BartSimpson]

QBC QBC:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Chinese guarantees.

As opposed to American Guarantees.....

If we say we'll be there when you need us we'll be there. No guarantee needed, it's just the way it is.