[andyt]

I'm sure he will.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

andyt andyt:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

andyt andyt:

He slapped her twice, not hard enough to leave a mark. If she hadn't died he'd likely get no jail time at all, just a stern warning from social services.

Andy, did you know it's entirely possible to beat a person to death without leaving a mark?
As for "intent", let's say for sake of argument you're over visiting me and we're sitting at my kitchen table while I clean my handgun. I mistakenly think it's completely unloaded but I accidentally left a round in it. It discharges and hits you in the chest, killing you instantly. Does 79 days in the pokey seem about right as a sentence?

[stratos]

andyt andyt:

Strutz Strutz:

If someone else had done this to his daughter, without meaning to cause her death of course, I bet he would be demanding that the assailant do time, ACTUAL time.

And the assailant would not, in all likelihood. We don't send people with no history of violence to jail for slapping someone and not even leaving a mark.

But I sure hope you have a better record of sending people to jail for killing someone with no just cause. An example of just cause would be self defense when the other person is attacking you and or beating the crap out of you.

AndyT you do know that you are condoning violence towards woman here.

[andyt]

try your Teowsisms on somebody else, Vic.

[stratos]

So now your saying what? it's not okay for the guy to have slapped his 13yr old Daughter? Either you are saying it is okay for an adult male to slap a 13yr old girl or not.

Everything you've posted here is in defense of him along the lines that he did not mean to kill her just slap her a bit. You even try and point out that he left no marks. I disagree with you there, the marks he left were inside of her which resulted in her death.

[andyt]

stratos stratos:

Either you are saying it is okay for an adult male to slap a 13yr old girl or not.

Uh huh, uh huh. Yeassss

Ebony, and Ivory, come together in perfect harmony.

[stratos]

Dodge of a non answer because you must have realized that is exactly what you have been doing. Supporting a man who slapped a 13yr old girl hard enough that it killed her.

[andyt]

Do you support the death penalty for him? Because if you don't you're standing with the child abusers.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

Can't agree there. THe law is based on intent. Mens Rea. I don't want this guy to get life while somebody who just beats the shit out of somebody causing brain damage, say, gets a few years because they didn't kill anybody.

The law is based on intent--far too much in my opinion. Intent is inferred. Did Oscar Pistorius intend to kill his girlfriend or was it just a horrible accident? Who knows? If he did intend to kill her then all the trial is doing is measuring his acting ability.

Besides, on the science side, there are some serious problems with intent and free will. We, for example, might make allowances for a paranoid schizophrenic, or someone who had a massive brain tumour, on the basis that "they couldn't help it." Recent evidence suggests that that argument could be applied to anyone.

I realize that's pretty much a minority position.

Actually I'll go even further into Wingnut Land and say that computers would do a better job of trying cases than humans.

[stratos]

andyt andyt:

Do you support the death penalty for him? Because if you don't you're standing with the child abusers.

No I actually want him to serve at least 3 years in jail as a minimum. You on the other hand are saying oh well, HE Didn't mean to kill her just slap her. Her death was an accident so why have him do any serious jail time.

[andyt]

Well, have a nice trip.

The pestorius trial hinges on whether he really thought he was shooting an intruder or his girlfriend. It's all about intent. Many trials measure "acting ability" they do it by examining the facts, mostly. Does the person's story hold up?

This guy will regret this the rest of his life. No sentence will be worse than that. he got a light sentence because it was recognized that what happened was out of all proportion of what he intended or could reasonably foresee. I agree with that.

[andyt]

stratos stratos:

andyt andyt:

Do you support the death penalty for him? Because if you don't you're standing with the child abusers.

No I actually want him to serve at least 3 years in jail as a minimum. You on the other hand are saying oh well, HE Didn't mean to kill her just slap her. Her death was an accident so why have him do any serious jail time.

You're standing with the child abusers then. Only the maximum sentence here. Anything else is just coddling this killer.

I am saying the sentence is appropriate. Nowhere does that make your slimy accusation hold water.

[Zipperfish]

andyt andyt:

Well, have a nice trip.

The pestorius trial hinges on whether he really thought he was shooting an intruder or his girlfriend. It's all about intent. Many trials measure "acting ability" they do it by examining the facts, mostly. Does the person's story hold up?

This guy will regret this the rest of his life. No sentence will be worse than that. he got a light sentence because it was recognized that what happened was out of all proportion of what he intended or could reasonably foresee. I agree with that.

Reasonably forseeable is more easily measured than intent--I've no problem wiht that as a mitgating circumstance.

[stratos]

andyt andyt:

stratos stratos:

andyt andyt:

Do you support the death penalty for him? Because if you don't you're standing with the child abusers.

No I actually want him to serve at least 3 years in jail as a minimum. You on the other hand are saying oh well, HE Didn't mean to kill her just slap her. Her death was an accident so why have him do any serious jail time.

You're standing with the child abusers then. Only the maximum sentence here. Anything else is just coddling this killer.

I am saying the sentence is appropriate. Nowhere does that make your slimy accusation hold water.

Well then I guess I'm standing right next to you then.

The difference is that I'm not defending him like you are. You can not even claim to be doing anything else but discarding what he did, AndyT. Yet again you are dodging the fact of your own statements by trying to shift the focus from what you have said and are doing by attempting to say that others are doing it. Typical false argument used by you when you've backed your own self into a corner with your statements.

[Centre]

andyt andyt:

I have no problem with this sentence. He didn't mean to kill or seriously harm her. He could not foresee the result of his actions. As I say, when we give probation to people who did mean to seriously harm their victim and could have foreseen their death, this sentence is actually harsh. Go after people who are likely to repeat their crimes and had the intention to harm. That's not this guy.

I don't recall my Father or Mother ever hitting my sisters.

Hitting to 'teach a lesson' is not necessary or civilized.

I never had to hit my kids either as they understood why certain things had to be done.