[BartSimpson]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

I find it odd that the govt was all hot and bothered to spend billions on the F-35 but now suddenly we're cutting back on the military, AGAIN?!

Then again, I guess the money's gotta come from somewhere to keep feeding the epicenter of entitlement known as the Senate.

All that they have to do is knock ONE F-35 off of the order sheet to make up their $3.1 Billion.

At the end of the day Canada will still have an F-35.

As a matter of fact, here it is:

[Jabberwalker]

That's a .... crackerjack fighter jet they're selling us!

[Gunnair]

bootlegga bootlegga:

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

East Timor where the Minister of National Defense refused to ride in a Sea King Helicopter off Provider because it was unsafe but had no problem making the service men ride in it after they had shit canned he EH101 deal.

Maybe Liberal Cheerleaders should stop shouting Conservative hypocrisy when it comes to the military since they were no better and all things considered maybe even worse.

I don't have one problem with cutting defence spending to help balance the budget. When times gets tough, you've got to make tough decisions and cut things.

But when one party wraps itself in the flag and claims that everyone else is terrible for cutting defence spending, then turns around and does the exact same thing, it is nothing but hypocrisy.

Say what you want about the Liberals and Chretien, but he never promised all sorts of big ticket items during his time in the PMO, then backed away from the table when the bill came. He said that times are tough and we need to tighten our belts and that's what he did. Harper promised $490 billion for ships, planes, trucks, etc. in 2008 and hasn't gotten any of them going (beyond perhaps the design stage). What's worse is that some of them have been outright cancelled (Close combat vehicles for example), while others have been stalled for his entire time in office (new trucks, SAR planes, while others reduced in numbers and/or capability (JSS).

Bang on. Comparing the what the Liberals did and what the CPC is doing is apples and oranges. Chretian didn't tell bald faced lies when he said he'd hack the EH101 and then DND in the 90's. The CPC are and it will cost them in the next election.

[BartSimpson]

Jabberwalker Jabberwalker:

That's a .... crackerjack fighter jet they're selling us!

[andyt]

Gunnair Gunnair:

Bang on. Comparing the what the Liberals did and what the CPC is doing is apples and oranges. Chretian didn't tell bald faced lies when he said he'd hack the EH101 and then DND in the 90's. The CPC are and it will cost them in the next election.

I'm not so sure. Nobody gives a shit about the military now that the troops are mostly home - no flags to wrap yourself in and Canadians will just forget about it. Meanwhile the Cons are balancing the budget, which looks pretty good. JT is going to have to come up with some solid policies to put up, or there'll be another scandal to defeat the Cons.

[saturn_656]

Shades of Mulroney. Big promises. No results.

Where are our SSN's?

[Canadian_Mind]

I'm thinking I may end up voting for the Grits... Not for the love of them, but because the government needs fresh faces.

[Gunnair]

andyt andyt:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Bang on. Comparing the what the Liberals did and what the CPC is doing is apples and oranges. Chretian didn't tell bald faced lies when he said he'd hack the EH101 and then DND in the 90's. The CPC are and it will cost them in the next election.

I'm not so sure. Nobody gives a shit about the military now that the troops are mostly home - no flags to wrap yourself in and Canadians will just forget about it. Meanwhile the Cons are balancing the budget, which looks pretty good. JT is going to have to come up with some solid policies to put up, or there'll be another scandal to defeat the Cons.

Let me clarify. Public service, vets and DND will remember (and their friends and families)

[martin14]

Gunnair Gunnair:

andyt andyt:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Bang on. Comparing the what the Liberals did and what the CPC is doing is apples and oranges. Chretian didn't tell bald faced lies when he said he'd hack the EH101 and then DND in the 90's. The CPC are and it will cost them in the next election.

I'm not so sure. Nobody gives a shit about the military now that the troops are mostly home - no flags to wrap yourself in and Canadians will just forget about it. Meanwhile the Cons are balancing the budget, which looks pretty good. JT is going to have to come up with some solid policies to put up, or there'll be another scandal to defeat the Cons.

Let me clarify. Public service, vets and DND will remember (and their friends and families)

Remembering is one thing, being able to do something about it is another.

What's the alternative ?

Dippers.. yeah, ok.
Greens.. fine, cancel all military.

Liberals ? Sure, look at the news, see yet another Trudeau, remember that era,
and vote for more of that ?

Either hold your nose or stay home, but few defections to other parties.

[saturn_656]

Gunnair Gunnair:

andyt andyt:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Bang on. Comparing the what the Liberals did and what the CPC is doing is apples and oranges. Chretian didn't tell bald faced lies when he said he'd hack the EH101 and then DND in the 90's. The CPC are and it will cost them in the next election.

I'm not so sure. Nobody gives a shit about the military now that the troops are mostly home - no flags to wrap yourself in and Canadians will just forget about it. Meanwhile the Cons are balancing the budget, which looks pretty good. JT is going to have to come up with some solid policies to put up, or there'll be another scandal to defeat the Cons.

Let me clarify. Public service, vets and DND will remember (and their friends and families)

Problem is the other two alternatives are only going to make things worse.

What colour would you like your steaming pile of crap to be? Blue, red, or orange?

[Gunnair]

martin14 martin14:

Gunnair Gunnair:

andyt andyt:

I'm not so sure. Nobody gives a shit about the military now that the troops are mostly home - no flags to wrap yourself in and Canadians will just forget about it. Meanwhile the Cons are balancing the budget, which looks pretty good. JT is going to have to come up with some solid policies to put up, or there'll be another scandal to defeat the Cons.

Let me clarify. Public service, vets and DND will remember (and their friends and families)

Remembering is one thing, being able to do something about it is another.

What's the alternative ?

Dippers.. yeah, ok.
Greens.. fine, cancel all military.

Liberals ? Sure, look at the news, see yet another Trudeau, remember that era,
and vote for more of that ?

Either hold your nose or stay home, but few defections to other parties.

You'd be surprised.

Liberals will have no issue cutting
NDP will have no issue cutting.
CPC will have no issue cutting.

Only one of those three has made it a habit to offer bald faced lies about it. At least the other parties will tell you truth.

[andyt]

Only on this particular issue tho. They'll each have areas where they'll be hypocritical. It's a mugs game to think there's a more honest party out there. They all start off with good intentions, then start to get entitled. As Zipper says, governments, like diapers should be changed often. They all start to stink after a while. I don't know if the Cons have reached that stage yet, just because so far neither opposition party has put forth solid ideas about where they would go (at least at the beginning). Well the NDP has, but it mostly seems to revolve around saying no to resource projects, just like in BC. I like some of their ideas around greater equality, but they have to show how they plan to pay for it. Equality isn't cheap, at least in the short run, which is all govts can really worry about.

And in the end we get the govt we deserve, because we all place such conflicting demands on them, we can't really handle the truth, and don't want to hear it from them.

[Freakinoldguy]

Gunnair Gunnair:

andyt andyt:

Gunnair Gunnair:

Bang on. Comparing the what the Liberals did and what the CPC is doing is apples and oranges. Chretian didn't tell bald faced lies when he said he'd hack the EH101 and then DND in the 90's. The CPC are and it will cost them in the next election.

I'm not so sure. Nobody gives a shit about the military now that the troops are mostly home - no flags to wrap yourself in and Canadians will just forget about it. Meanwhile the Cons are balancing the budget, which looks pretty good. JT is going to have to come up with some solid policies to put up, or there'll be another scandal to defeat the Cons.

Let me clarify. Public service, vets and DND will remember (and their friends and families)

Spread around the country like we are how much impact on and election do you really think we have?

The quick answer is, next to none and the Conservatives know it. Why else would successive Canadian Governments have figured out that the best way to cut spending or procure money without pissing the voters off is by attacking the only people in Gov't Service that can't defend themselves with anything but the ballot box?

So, if you want the military family to punish the Conservatives we need a better idea than not voting for them because our votes won't make one iota of difference to the outcome of the next election, unless of course you can get every retiree, serving member and all their voting age family members to change their riding to someplace like Toronto Danforth because if they changed it to a riding in BC the election would already be over before they got to vote anyway.

To put it mildly......... this is us:

[Jabberwalker]

Let me clarify. Public service, vets and DND will remember (and their friends and families)

[OnTheIce]

andyt andyt:

We can't really handle the truth, and don't want to hear it from them.

Exactly. This is just a simple case of NIMBYism.

We all know costs need to be cut, budgets needs to be balanced, but have no interest in making those cuts to our specific interest that we have in the Government. It's always "cut somewhere else".

It's a good fiscal move and a political move with only positive consequences.