[Delwin]

Ha funny, the difference is if I waited to show you the images of a finished building it would obviously be a vast improvement over an open dig site. If I wait to show an image of the tar sands in 20 years, I am confident we wont be able to say the same thing. I am not an anti-development tree-hugger. I posted the pics because Neil Diamond drew a comparison between the appearance of the tar sands and Hiroshima, there was a lot of discussion about this comparison on the thread that this comparison was not accurate. I posted the pictures so you could draw your own conclusions. These images speak for themselves and if you deny seeing the similarity in the images, I would surmise that you are being obtuse because of a political bias.

[Zipperfish]

Delwin Delwin:

Ha funny, the difference is if I waited to show you the images of a finished building it would obviously be a vast improvement over an open dig site. If I wait to show an image of the tar sands in 20 years, I am confident we wont be able to say the same thing. I am not an anti-development tree-hugger. I posted the pics because Neil Diamond drew a comparison between the appearance of the tar sands and Hiroshima, there was a lot of discussion about this comparison on the thread that this comparison was not accurate. I posted the pictures so you could draw your own conclusions. These images speak for themselves and if you deny seeing the similarity in the images, I would surmise that you are being obtuse because of a political bias.

Wrong Neil. It was Vince Neil of Motley Cure. No, sorry, Neil Sedaka. Or was it drummer extraordinaire and recovering libertarian Neil Peart? Is it just me or are Neil's overrepresented in the music biz?

[DrCaleb]

commanderkai commanderkai:

Never been to Fort McMurray or anything like that, but doesn't every mining operation look like wastelands?

It's the only way to do open pit mining. Scrape big holes out of the earth.

Newer mining methods (SAGD) leave the overburden in place, but those don't make for good pictures to fit Delwins' agenda.

http://www.cenovus.com/

Neither does pictures of reclaimed land that are replanted after mining operations are finished.

http://www.syncrude.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=5909

If you look at 56.990825,-111.560669, that's the center of the reclaimed land, and looks much different than the surrounding mines.

Funny Delwin isn't singling out Gold mining, Diamond mining or Asbestos mining which are far harsher on the environment.

[Lemmy]

[commanderkai]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

It's the only way to do open pit mining. Scrape big holes out of the earth.

Newer mining methods (SAGD) leave the overburden in place, but those don't make for good pictures to fit Delwins' agenda.

http://www.cenovus.com/

Neither does pictures of reclaimed land that are replanted after mining operations are finished.

http://www.syncrude.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=5909

If you look at 56.990825,-111.560669, that's the center of the reclaimed land, and looks much different than the surrounding mines.

Funny Delwin isn't singling out Gold mining, Diamond mining or Asbestos mining which are far harsher on the environment.

Well yeah. I mean, I would assume removing oil soaked lands and replacing it with soil and sands that do not have any oil would actually give some added benefit to the environment compared to what is already there naturally.

[peck420]

Delwin Delwin:

Ha funny, the difference is if I waited to show you the images of a finished building it would obviously be a vast improvement over an open dig site. If I wait to show an image of the tar sands in 20 years, I am confident we wont be able to say the same thing. I am not an anti-development tree-hugger. I posted the pics because Neil Diamond drew a comparison between the appearance of the tar sands and Hiroshima, there was a lot of discussion about this comparison on the thread that this comparison was not accurate. I posted the pictures so you could draw your own conclusions. These images speak for themselves and if you deny seeing the similarity in the images, I would surmise that you are being obtuse because of a political bias.

Then you would be 100% wrong.

Reclaimed land:

Bill's Lake, Syncrude

There is a reason that every picture of the oil sands only applies to 0.5%3.37% of the oil sands operation (surface mining).

Whoops...only took the area already being mined instead of total area, applicable to surface mining, into account.

[FieryVulpine]

peck420 peck420:

The truth is somewhere in between.

There is the fact that much of the bitumen taken from the sands is too deep to excavate from an open pit so the companies pump in steam to separate it from the sand and bring it to the surface without disturbing the landscape a great deal.

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

Wrong Neil. It was Vince Neil of Motley Cure. No, sorry, Neil Sedaka. Or was it drummer extraordinaire and recovering libertarian Neil Peart? Is it just me or are Neil's overrepresented in the music biz?

Dude, did I miss a merger between Motley Crue and the Cure?

[Delwin]

peck420 peck420:

Delwin Delwin:

Ha funny, the difference is if I waited to show you the images of a finished building it would obviously be a vast improvement over an open dig site. If I wait to show an image of the tar sands in 20 years, I am confident we wont be able to say the same thing. I am not an anti-development tree-hugger. I posted the pics because Neil Diamond drew a comparison between the appearance of the tar sands and Hiroshima, there was a lot of discussion about this comparison on the thread that this comparison was not accurate. I posted the pictures so you could draw your own conclusions. These images speak for themselves and if you deny seeing the similarity in the images, I would surmise that you are being obtuse because of a political bias.

Then you would be 100% wrong.

Reclaimed land:

Bill's Lake, Syncrude

There is a reason that every picture of the oil sands only applies to 0.5%3.37% of the oil sands operation (surface mining).

Whoops...only took the area already being mined instead of total area, applicable to surface mining, into account.

this is great news, we can just ask all of the plants, fish and wildlife to go to their mother-in-laws for the next 20 years. It's great that Syncrude was able to turn gateway hill into it's poster boy for sustainable development, unfortunately it happens to be the only site to date alberta environment has certified to be equivalent to it's pre mining state. But I guess as long as they take pics from different angles we should be fine with it.

[peck420]

Delwin Delwin:

this is great news, we can just ask all of the plants, fish and wildlife to go to their mother-in-laws for the next 20 years. It's great that Syncrude was able to turn gateway hill into it's poster boy for sustainable development, unfortunately it happens to be the only site to date alberta environment has certified to be equivalent to it's pre mining state. But I guess as long as they take pics from different angles we should be fine with it.

It's also one of the only sites that has been closed long enough to achieve 'Certified' status, but why let that little factoid ruin your rant?

In 20 years we will have another 71.49 sq km's reclaimed (currently in waiting period + in reclamation process). The original site is 1.04 sq km's for those keeping track.

The 20 after that will be closer to 400 sq km's.

The reclamation is proportionate to the start ups (barring any massive finds below the surface projections), just on a delay. The delay will be mining operations timeline + reclamation timeline + 15 years.

Granted, we could just remove the wait period to appease the idiots...but why even try to do it right, right?

[Zipperfish]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

commanderkai commanderkai:

Never been to Fort McMurray or anything like that, but doesn't every mining operation look like wastelands?

It's the only way to do open pit mining. Scrape big holes out of the earth.

Newer mining methods (SAGD) leave the overburden in place, but those don't make for good pictures to fit Delwins' agenda.

http://www.cenovus.com/

Neither does pictures of reclaimed land that are replanted after mining operations are finished.

http://www.syncrude.ca/users/folder.asp?FolderID=5909

If you look at 56.990825,-111.560669, that's the center of the reclaimed land, and looks much different than the surrounding mines.

Funny Delwin isn't singling out Gold mining, Diamond mining or Asbestos mining which are far harsher on the environment.

They are all pretty harsh in their own ways. Coal mines in the southeast BC coal block have a huge selenium issue right now. Gold mines have metals and cyanide. With the oil sands, the sheer size of the tailings ponds is a huge issue.

Mines basically change the watershed on a geological time scale. If they go wrong it costs a lot. The abandoned Giant Mine in NWT recently passed a billion dollars to remediate and is still going. That's why they need to be held to a high standard.

[Zipperfish]

FieryVulpine FieryVulpine:

Dude, did I miss a merger between Motley Crue and the Cure?

D'oh!

[Jabberwalker]

No matter what any of us think about the Fort McMurray operations, sooner or later, all of that petroleum will be extracted because it will be needed. We can wring our hands and tisk-tisk about how dirty a process we think it is but if we don't mine it, our children will have to. Petroleum is a finite resource and eventually, it will run out. We use it for so many things beyond energy ... materials ... fertilizers ... we literally eat petroleum and when it comes to an end, our civilization might just follow it. Anyway, hold your nose. It will be mined no matter what you or I think about it.