[ShepherdsDog]

I could post those pictures of knife wounds suffered by police again. I wonder what the headlines would have read and what the public reaction would be if they had smacked her on the hand with a baton?

[Brenda]

From what I read, there were more than one officer present. Don't tell me our police force has such bad people skills they cannot find a way (maybe with the help of a health care worker specialized in handling people with dementia?) to get things done WITHOUT the 'help' of weapons.

[Lemmy]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

I think it's unfair to generalize all police as having power issues while labelling all health care workers as saints. Your bias here is clear.

You're right, to some degree, but you need to concede that "having power issues" is, for a significant number of cops, an attraction that draws those personalities to pursue policing in the first place.

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

How many times are police faced with the threat of stabbing? No clue...but their duty is to protect the public, themselves and the suspect. 1 and 2 come before 3.

3 and 1 are the same thing. Suspects are part of "the public". Sometimes they have to have force used on them, but I doubt you'd find a police agency that would come out and declare that suspects deserve less protection than others.

[OnTheIce]

Lemmy Lemmy:

3 and 1 are the same thing. Suspects are part of "the public". Sometimes they have to have force used on them, but I doubt you'd find a police agency that come and declare that suspects deserve less protection than others.

1 and 3 are the same, but 1 still comes before 3

While the safety of the suspect is important, the safety of the rest of the public takes precedence.

A prime example would be the actions taken during a police chase. Police don't hesitate to intentionally crash a suspect vehicle to prevent them from entering populated areas where the rest of the public is at greater risk.

[Thanos]

The police don't have the resources to carry a nurse around with them to talk every looney or junkie down. They also don't have the time either when some nutcase is swinging a knife or gun around and threatening to kill anyone that gets in their way. Vincent Li anyone? If the police had arrived in time before that asshole hacked that kid's head off on the Greyhound, what should they have done? Play nice with a calm-down soothing-talk session and wait for a nurse or doctor from the nearest nut-house to arrive? Or put a couple of bullets in Li, lethal targeting or not, to make sure he didn't hurt anyone?

No-win scenario for the police every time they deal with this sort of thing, thanks mostly to the goddamn reactionary oh-so-expert media that's put about forty years now of effort into getting the public to believe that the police are their enemies instead of the line of defense protecting them from the genuine monsters that are waiting out there. But I'd rather have the cops err on the side of making sure no one else (including themselves) gets hurt when some kook snaps, than have them singing fucking "Kumbaya" to someone who's acting like they've got rabies.

[Zipperfish]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

How many health care workers face the treat of stabbing on a daily basis? Likely, not many.

They get attacked frequently in old folks homes.

[Lemmy]

I agree with most of that. But this case is an 80 year-old woman. The cops got this one wrong, IMO. Any cop who'd taze an 80 year-old woman is a pussy.

[ShepherdsDog]

$1:

but you need to concede that "having power issues" is, for a significant number of cops, an attraction that draws those personalities to pursue policing in the first place.

Most of the people I know who went into policing did so because they wanted to make the world a better and safer place,

[Brenda]

OnTheIce OnTheIce:

Brenda Brenda:

Oh, I don't know. I think it happens more often than you think, but then again, health care workers don't have a power issue, they care about people and want to help them, make their life easier.

So tell me, how many police officers face the threat of stabbing on a daily basis? If it were all of them, every day, you would think they would have found a better way than shooting or tasering, no?

Aside from that, you are the only one stating this old woman had a knife and was threatening the 50 years or so younger police officers with it.

I think it's unfair to generalize all police as having power issues while labelling all health care workers as saints. Your bias here is clear.

As is yours, my dear.

$1:

Had you read the post, the knife was mentioned in media reports already. There's a link posted above.

I did. The link Zip's posted states she was wandering around with a knife in hand.
Does that warrant violence against her?
According to you, it does.

$1:

How many times are police faced with the threat of stabbing? No clue...but their duty is to protect the public, themselves and the suspect. 1 and 2 come before 3.

Of course you have no clue. The police here should have protected the lady from herself. They didn't. They hurt her with a taser, because they (as opposed to health care workers) are trained to use those, instead of the people skills health care workers have.

[saturn_656]

Brenda Brenda:

From what I read, there were more than one officer present. Don't tell me our police force has such bad people skills they cannot find a way (maybe with the help of a health care worker specialized in handling people with dementia?) to get things done WITHOUT the 'help' of weapons.

Police have amazing people skills, but people skills tend not to work as well when the person you are dealing with is off their fucking rocker.

[Brenda]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Brenda Brenda:

From what I read, there were more than one officer present. Don't tell me our police force has such bad people skills they cannot find a way (maybe with the help of a health care worker specialized in handling people with dementia?) to get things done WITHOUT the 'help' of weapons.

Police have amazing people skills, but people skills tend not to work as well when the person you are dealing with is off their fucking rocker.

We should hand all the people working with dementia patients or mentally ill patients a taser. While we're at it, just hand them a gun. Problem solved, right?

I agree with Lemmy here.

[saturn_656]

Brenda Brenda:

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Brenda Brenda:

From what I read, there were more than one officer present. Don't tell me our police force has such bad people skills they cannot find a way (maybe with the help of a health care worker specialized in handling people with dementia?) to get things done WITHOUT the 'help' of weapons.

Police have amazing people skills, but people skills tend not to work as well when the person you are dealing with is off their fucking rocker.

We should hand all the people working with dementia patients or mentally ill patients a taser. While we're at it, just hand them a gun. Problem solved, right?

I agree with Lemmy here.

Police are not health care workers. Don't expect them to have the same skill set.

Maybe they should have sent the mental health nurses out to get her, let the police tend to their own area of responsibility.

[DrCaleb]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Brenda Brenda:

From what I read, there were more than one officer present. Don't tell me our police force has such bad people skills they cannot find a way (maybe with the help of a health care worker specialized in handling people with dementia?) to get things done WITHOUT the 'help' of weapons.

Police have amazing people skills, but people skills tend not to work as well when the person you are dealing with is off their fucking rocker.

My grandfather-in-law died from Alzhimers. Growing up in a small town and being the former mayor, he knew everyone and everyone knew him. He'd often go home, put on the kettle, make some instant coffee, roll a couple cigarettes and sit at the kitchen table and wait for some friends to come by.

We first clued in he had Alzhimers because he would go to the house he sold 15 years earlier and do those things in the new owners kitchen at 3am. They were pretty good sports about it, they'd escort him to the proper house, or call someone to come get him. He wasn't 'off his rocker'; he simply didn't remember the last 15 years very well. This is normal for Alzhimers; you lose more and more of the recent past.

We are all going to have to get used to these realities as our population ages. Some people when they don't know where they are or how they got here, and only remember being 6 years old, can become violent.

[OnTheIce]

Brenda Brenda:

around with a knife in hand.
Does that warrant violence against her?
According to you, it does.

When you ask someone carrying a knife, old/young, crazy or not and they don't drop it and they dont a taser compared to the other options, was likely the better choice. Do they tackle her and break more bones? Do they wack the knife away from her with a baton and break her wrist/hand/fingers?

How would you have handled the situation better? It's easy to be an armchair police officer.

Brenda Brenda:

Of course you have no clue. The police here should have protected the lady from herself. They didn't. They hurt her with a taser, because they (as opposed to health care workers) are trained to use those, instead of the people skills health care workers have.

No, the taser didn't hurt her. Her age and poor bone density hurt her when she fell to the ground. The taser caused the fall. She could have just as easily fallen down the stairs and did the same damage or fallen when the tried to take the knife away from her.

Police aren't health care workers or social workers. They have people skills, just like health care workers.

[Zipperfish]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Police are not health care workers. Don't expect them to have the same skill set.

Maybe they should have sent the mental health nurses out to get her, let the police tend to their own area of responsibility.

Exactly. Where was this lady's family? Where were the members of her neighbourhood? Why did someone need to call 9-1-1 because of a demented 80-year-old lady?

The cops are their to enforce, and that is all they are good at.

But we've created a state where the police are expected to moderate all conflicts in society, deal with all peculiar situations. This is in large part due to the police, who are always urging people not to get involved. Baloney. Get involved.

Robert Peel Robert Peel:

The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence

Robert Peel, after whom "Bobbies" are named, is considered the father of modern policing)