[bambu]

Unsound Unsound:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

Actually, he's been pretty rational with me. He'd cited a questionable resource recently and was prompt in editing the reference.

Granted, he gravitates to some fringe topics *but* I've observed he's typically diligent in backing up his opinions with solid references.

In the realm of forum behavior he's pretty much a good citizen by that standard.

Been a few comments that just kinda got my head shaking. "All Lynndie England did was pose for photographs." or in another thread something about investing money in real estate instead of kids because the kids might do something stupid or dangerous? ANd the whole "bambu ilk" thing...

Not saying I hate the guy or anything, but the head-shaking and frowning when I read his posts has my wife thinking I'm having a medical emergency at times...

In effect, all Lynddie England did do was pose for photographs at the behest of her boyfriend Graner.
She didn't really drag that inmate out of his cell on a leash, it was staged for the camera...all revealed in "Standard Operating Procedure the doco.
I'll start a thread here about it one day.
She and the other grunts should never have been sent to prison.
If an inmate in Abu Ghraib attacked one of my female [or male]soldier colleagues with a brick I'd probaly flop my body weight down on him [with my elbow leading] like Jaral Davis did too.


'bambu-ilk'...what's wrong with that?

Medical emergency?
Crikey!

It's only an internet forum.

[Zipperfish]

bambu bambu:

In effect, all Lynddie England did do was pose for photographs at the behest of her boyfriend Graner.

I'm sure that's what she said.

$1:

She didn't really drag that inmate out of his cell on a leash, it was staged for the camera...all revealed in "Standard Operating Procedure the doco.

Was the guy on the leash in on the "staging"?

[bambu]

Zipperfish Zipperfish:

bambu bambu:

In effect, all Lynddie England did do was pose for photographs at the behest of her boyfriend Graner.

I'm sure that's what she said.

$1:

She didn't really drag that inmate out of his cell on a leash, it was staged for the camera...all revealed in "Standard Operating Procedure" the doco.

Was the guy on the leash in on the "staging"?

Probably not...but the grunts were really only doing what 'military intellegence' told them to do. Their wings of the prison were taken over by military intelligence.
Sabrina Harman took many photos, they became public...so someone had to be sacrificed.
Notice it wasn't anyone high up the ladder.
Just the kids down the bottom.


Now Bradley Manning gets 35 years [hopefully he'll only serve a third of that sentence].
He wants to live as a woman in prison, and start on hormone treatments right now.
Looks like he's niot going to be allowed to do that.

[Zipperfish]

bambu bambu:

Probably not...but the grunts were really only doing what 'military intellegence' told them to do.

Again, maybe, maybe not. The story I got was that the intel guys would come in and want to talk to a prisoner. In that case, your options are limited.

However, I don't think the intel guys were inisting that the grunt guards do this. And it really looks like they are having a good time doing it.

$1:

Sabrina Harman took many photos, they became public...so someone had to be sacrificed.
Notice it wasn't anyone high up the ladder.
Just the kids down the bottom.

The grunts should have been locked up for a lot longer. Remember, a lot of the pictures have never been released on account of the fact they are too disturbing--as if the ones that were released aren't. But I agree, the Bush administration tried to keep everything as low down the pecking order as they could--as all politicians do. I'm pretty sure everyone up to at least Rumsfeld knew what was going on.

[bambu]

The grunts should not have been locked up at all;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tina-dupuy/i-think-i-owe-lynndie-eng_b_192952.html

Tina Dupuy.
Award-Winning Writer, Investigative Journalist and Editor of Mediabistro's FishbowlLA

I Think I Owe Lynndie England an Apology


'A Monster-in-chief' is what she was called by The Guardian in 2004, 'A Symbol of Shame' by CBS, 'the face of the atrocities at Abu Ghraib' in Marie Claire.
The whole time, England, herself, in so many words said that she was a scapegoat, said that Rumsfeld knew, said that she was just following orders from her superiors. She said this on her way to prison after she was convicted of conspiracy, maltreating Iraqi detainees. She said this when her 20-30 year sentence was reduced. She held fast to this when she was finally released from prison in 2007.

England was locked up for 3 years and dishonorably discharged from the military.

President Barack Obama released what is now known as the Torture Memos - the legal opinions that justified water boarding, sleep deprivation, isolation, physical violence and reality show staples like bugs and public humiliation. Basically, what we saw in the pictures of England, were justified for the CIA by the legal jerry-rigging of lawyers John C. Yoo, Jay S. Bybee and Steven G. Bradbury.

Where were these 'harsh interrogation technique' peddlers when England was taking the fall? What were they saying then?
Peddling the rogue individual defense, of course. The lone wolf. The bad apple: Lynndie England. Yes, they let - we let a woman that signed up for the military during war time when she was still in high school become a universal object of disdain.

Support our troops?

"We didn't kill them. We didn't cut their heads off." England said in an interview. "We didn't shoot them. We didn't cut them and let them bleed to death. We just did what we were told to soften them up for interrogation, and we were told to do anything short of killing them."

[Unsound]

Whether ordered to or just rogue, your own post here contradicts the idea that all she did was pose for some pictures. And even if that was all she did... do you think that was ok? Would you smile pretty for the camera while someone else humiliated and tortured another human being in the same frame?

[BRAH]

[bambu]

Unsound Unsound:

Whether ordered to or just rogue, your own post here contradicts the idea that all she did was pose for some pictures. And even if that was all she did... do you think that was ok? Would you smile pretty for the camera while someone else humiliated and tortured another human being in the same frame?

I wouldn't now...but who knows what I might've done in the same circumstances when I was her age, in a warzone, in the Abu Ghraib prison, having been told to by military intelligence, and believing the inmates to be terrorists/the enemy.
I would not expect to have been thrown in prison for doing so.