[CanadianJeff]

stratos stratos:

$1:

Ditto. I've never understood why anyone cares what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. One's preference of sex act has absolutely nothing to do with one's character. I'm not defined by my Little Bo Peep costume.

This has never been about what one does in the bedroom what it has always been is about the benifits one gets from being married. GLBT have been able do what they want in the bedroom for a while now. This is all about healthcare benifits and tax write offs (deductions) along with some other benifits that just dont come to mind right now.

Oh yeah of course because there is no possible way that gay people could ever be religious or appreciate the religious benefits of marriage in any way possible.

[stratos]

$1:

Oh yeah of course because there is no possible way that gay people could ever be religious or appreciate the religious benefits of marriage in any way possible.

And another BENEFIT, yet if their religon does not acknowlage GLBT marriage? Keep on pointing out my point for me. It is all about the benifits and not about what someone does in the bedroom.

[CanadianJeff]

I'd rather you not straw man what I'm trying to say into something to support your argument so let me be clear.

I know people that are both gay and highly devout. The two are not mutually exclusive. I have no doubts that many of these people view marriage as a commitment before god and community as a very important thing. They fought to be able to have the opportunity to show that commitiment. To simply degrade everyone and anyone who fought for LGBT rights as fighting for the benefits only is degrading.

Even without the religious arguments you see many many people at pride parades that are strait and married supporting us. What would they possibly benefit from?

Don't insult us.

[stratos]

$1:

Ditto. I've never understood why anyone cares what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. One's preference of sex act has absolutely nothing to do with one's character. I'm not defined by my Little Bo Peep costume.

This is the comment I was replying to, the points I made are in reference to this. You go off and imply that I'm degrading someone or insulting them. Please point out exactly where I have. At no time did I straw man, you on the other hand, say that GBLT want to show their commetment before God and community. That strait people march in the pride parades and then demand from me what bennifit they get. What has that to do with what they do in the bedroom i've no idea, same with marching in the parades. So please enlighten me on how what you are ranting about has to do with what GBLT do in the bedroom.

Yet I'll answer your question of "Even without the religious arguments you see many many people at pride parades that are strait and married supporting us. What would they possibly benefit from?"
By being married and showing their commetment before God. I am glad they are devoted to God and each other. They also get to exactly what I said they bennifit from via being married. They now can file taxes jointly and be on the health care plan of their partner/spouse ( I'm not positive what the right PC term is). Are you now going to tell me that they wont do this? If they don't then they are foolish, married couples fileing together get a better tax break then singles and in most cases those who do the married fileing seperatly. As for health care generaly when you add a second person to the plan it is lower then if they went and got their own insurance seperatly.

As for those in the parades they, BGLT, get the bennifit of support of their strait friends and family members. These parades had the bennifit of showing that the BGLT community is not and or will not be isolated or pushed to a dark corneer. This in return had a part in bringing the issue into what we are discussing and going to court about in todays society. The strait participents of the parade got/get the chance to show their support and be out spoken of that. This, I would assume, brings them a sense of pride and in the case of family members bringing them even closer to their GBLT relitives. I would suspect that for many of these familes they went through hell on both sides before coming to terms over sexuality. Thus they, the striat members, bennifit form these affects on their lives. I would say in all respects these are good if not great bennifits that have come from the parades.

Now i've answered your question very truthfully and with out snide remarks, bigotry or implication that it some how is degrading to others. Do so with your answer to my question. What exactly does the parades and show of commitment have to do with what goes on in the bedroom? Which is what I was making my comments about.

[stratos]

Description of Straw Man

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.


Which is exactly what you did when you posted this.

Quote:
Oh yeah of course because there is no possible way that gay people could ever be religious or appreciate the religious benefits of marriage in any way possible.
[/quote]

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what was being talked about.

$1:

Quote:
Ditto. I've never understood why anyone cares what consenting adults do in their bedrooms. One's preference of sex act has absolutely nothing to do with one's character. I'm not defined by my Little Bo Peep costume.



This has never been about what one does in the bedroom what it has always been is about the benifits one gets from being married. GLBT have been able do what they want in the bedroom for a while now. This is all about healthcare benifits and tax write offs (deductions) along with some other benifits that just dont come to mind right now.

Your false accusation of me useing a Straw Man is exactly that false seeing as how you were not even close to dealing with what was being talked about. You went on to claim that I was insulting and degrading. Yet you did not find the reference to this having been about what one does in the bedroom as being degrading and insulting to GLBT?

[raydan]

stratos stratos:

They also get to exactly what I said they bennifit from via being married. They now can file taxes jointly...

Actually, most couples don't benefit by filing taxes jointly. In reality, if both of them work, they suffer... at least in Canada, don't know enough about USA tax rules.

[Public_Domain]

[stratos]

$1:

I agree with your principle - let's abolish marriage altogether

No but it does bring me to the question of what is the differance between Civil Unions and Marriage. Some states passed Civil Union laws so that GLBT could have something simular to marriage but not all the bennifits of marriage such as the health care and tax breaks that I've mentioned. This is still a union between two people in love just withouth the financial perks.

Not many states have the civil unions yet the ones that do still have the GLBT comunity saying its not enough. This and other arguments that have been presented for allowing the GLBT community leads me to say what I did above.

[BartSimpson]

raydan raydan:

stratos stratos:

They also get to exactly what I said they bennifit from via being married. They now can file taxes jointly...

Actually, most couples don't benefit by filing taxes jointly. In reality, if both of them work, they suffer... at least in Canada, don't know enough about USA tax rules.

In the USA a married couple is taxed as if their joint income were earned by a single person.

In other words the old adage that 'two can live as cheaply as one' is enforced by law down here.

[raydan]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

raydan raydan:

stratos stratos:

They also get to exactly what I said they bennifit from via being married. They now can file taxes jointly...

Actually, most couples don't benefit by filing taxes jointly. In reality, if both of them work, they suffer... at least in Canada, don't know enough about USA tax rules.

In the USA a married couple is taxed as if their joint income were earned by a single person.

In other words the old adage that 'two can live as cheaply as one' is enforced by law down here.

I did a bit of reading, and it seems it especially benefits couples where one is earning a lot more than the other.

$1:

That said, filing jointly usually does lower your tax bill when one spouse earns a healthy amount of income while the other earns quite a bit less or nothing. The reason? The joint-filer tax brackets are exactly twice as wide as the MFS brackets. So when one spouse earns quite a bit and the other not so much, filing jointly will usually cut your tax bill because more of the higher-earning spouse's income gets taxed at lower rates. In this situation, the conventional wisdom is correct, and filing a joint return is the tax-smart option. Still, you should not reflexively reject the MFS option. It can save taxes in certain circumstances that could apply to you. Please keep reading.

http://www.smartmoney.com/taxes/income/ ... ely-15597/

[Brenda]

stratos stratos:

$1:

I agree with your principle - let's abolish marriage altogether

No but it does bring me to the question of what is the differance between Civil Unions and Marriage. Some states passed Civil Union laws so that GLBT could have something simular to marriage but not all the bennifits of marriage such as the health care and tax breaks that I've mentioned. This is still a union between two people in love just withouth the financial perks.

Not many states have the civil unions yet the ones that do still have the GLBT comunity saying its not enough. This and other arguments that have been presented for allowing the GLBT community leads me to say what I did above.

The point is that now it is FEDERALLY legal. So you don't have to pay estate tax when your partner dies, like a straight married couple doesn't have to. They can now legally both be parents, instead of only 1, so you can keep taking care of your kids when your partner dies.

There's about 1100 rules and regs that applied to straight married couples, but not to gay married couples.

[peck420]

Brenda Brenda:

[o you don't have to pay estate tax when your partner dies, like a straight married couple doesn't have to.

This was a myth, FYI.

There has been a tool in place, for quite some time, that circumvents this issue...Qualified Domestic Trust (QDOT).

Even straight heteros need to use it when one is not a citizen of the US .

[Brenda]

peck420 peck420:

Brenda Brenda:

[o you don't have to pay estate tax when your partner dies, like a straight married couple doesn't have to.

This was a myth, FYI.

There has been a tool in place, for quite some time, that circumvents this issue...Qualified Domestic Trust (QDOT).

Even straight heteros need to use it when one is not a citizen of the US .

I've never heard of a gay hetero.

Now you are bringing non-citizens into the mix, which is a whole other can of worms.

Point is, a particular group should not have to add different documents to a legal procedure than another group, based on sexual orientation, race or religion.

[BartSimpson]

peck420 peck420:

Brenda Brenda:

[o you don't have to pay estate tax when your partner dies, like a straight married couple doesn't have to.

This was a myth, FYI.

There has been a tool in place, for quite some time, that circumvents this issue...Qualified Domestic Trust (QDOT).

Even straight heteros need to use it when one is not a citizen of the US .

This 'straight hetero' and his wife used it even though we are citizens of the US.

That's because while the decision on DOMA negates the Federal estate tax for applicable individuals it does not negate applicable and similar state taxes that apply even to spouses. California will tax Lisa on what she inherits from me unless it is conveyed to her via a qualifying trust. Thus we are in a trust and we are also starting to consider leaving California - perhaps by this time next year.

[BartSimpson]

Brenda Brenda:

I've never heard of a gay hetero.

Bigot. That's discriminatory against gay heterosexuals!