[Lemmy]

Ahh the tidbits that someone can pull from Wikipedia.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Lemmy Lemmy:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Wait a sec. So Japan had already surrendered but was nuked to "send a message" to the USSR?

That's a good part of it, yes.

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Or are you saying that the US never intended to invade in the first place so they could send a message to the USSR by nuking Japan.

Sure they intended to invade, but didn't need to after June '45 because the Japanese were defeated. Marines wouldn't be killed on the beaches of mainland Japan because they would have walked right off the boats without resistance.

Riiight, cuz Japan didn't have a poorly trained, ill-equipped "Home Defense Force". Only the British would be that silly.
The fear of casualities wasn't JUST about American troops.

[Lemmy]

It doesn't matter what defense force they had. There would be no casualties because the Japanese would not have resisted because they'd already surrendered!

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Lemmy Lemmy:

It doesn't matter what defense force they had. There would be no casualties because the Japanese would not have resisted because they'd already surrendered!

Right, because they got nuked. That was the point of using "the bomb", to force an unconditional surrender without invading.
In the spring of 1945, Japan was militarily defeated, the military class just didn't want to admit it to the people, yet. They approached the US about surrendering but with conditions. The US position was unconditional surrender so that was a no go. By the time Hiroshima was bombed, the Japanese had been willing to surrender if they could keep their Emperor.
America wasn't interested because they wanted to try him for war crimes. When Japan didn't respond quickly enough, the US nuked Nagasaki. A surrender was brokered but Japan still got to keep their Emperor.

This was actually brokered, in part by the British who had a better understanding of the Asian mind and culture. They were the ones that finally convinced the US to relent on the subject of the Emperor. In return for this concession, the position of Emperor would more or less become a titular position and the people made to understand he isn't a god or demi-god, MacArthur was (jokes)
This allowed the Japanese to save some face in surrendering, while giving the US enough wiggle room to still call it an unconditional surrender.

I will correct one thing I said previously, the BEST outcome for Japan would have been if Britain had been able to convince the US just a wee bit earlier.

[Lemmy]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Right, because they got nuked. That was the point of using "the bomb", to force an unconditional surrender without invading.

You're not following along.

[Regina]

Lemmy Lemmy:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Right, because they got nuked. That was the point of using "the bomb", to force an unconditional surrender without invading.

You're not following along.

When is it that you believe Japan actually surrendered?

[Lemmy]

Regina Regina:

When is it that you believe Japan actually surrendered?

That's the question, isn't it? White House memos prove that Japan surrendered in June '45. The Americans weren't done with them yet at that point though.

[saturn_656]

Lemmy asserts that the Japanese Empire had already surrendered unconditionally to the Allies prior to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and obviously the Allies were so effective at covering this up that only those dedicated truthers know the horrifying reality.

It's something I've never read in any reputable publication on WWII, that's my two cents.

[Regina]

Lemmy Lemmy:

Regina Regina:

When is it that you believe Japan actually surrendered?

That's the question, isn't it? White House memos prove that Japan surrendered in June '45. The Americans weren't done with them yet at that point though.

Really? Then why was there ever The Kyūjō Incident? That happened on the night of 14-15 August 1945.

[Lemmy]

I didn't say anything about "unconditionally". But the Americans, both the White House and the military leaders, knew the enemy was defeated. So there was no military need to nuke them. There was no need to invade the mainland. And whether you've read the White House memos that prove this isn't relevant.

[Regina]

saturn_656 saturn_656:

Lemmy asserts that the Japanese Empire had already surrendered unconditionally to the Allies prior to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and obviously the Allies were so effective at covering this up that only those dedicated truthers know the horrifying reality.

It's something I've never read in any reputable publication on WWII, that's my two cents.

Quite odd because the Potsdam Conference went from July 17 to August 2, 1945.

[Regina]

Lemmy Lemmy:

I didn't say anything about "unconditionally". But the Americans, both the White House and the military leaders, knew the enemy was defeated. So there was no military need to nuke them. There was no need to invade the mainland. And whether you've read the White House memos that prove this isn't relevant.

So all the deaths in the Pacific theatre from June on never really happened?? The cemeteries are empty?

[Lemmy]

Regina Regina:

Lemmy Lemmy:

Regina Regina:

When is it that you believe Japan actually surrendered?

That's the question, isn't it? White House memos prove that Japan surrendered in June '45. The Americans weren't done with them yet at that point though.

Really? Then why was there ever The Kyūjō Incident? That happened on the night of 14-15 August 1945.

How might you (or some of your military leaders) react if you'd surrendered and your enemy's response to your surrender was to nuke two of your cities?

Regina Regina:

So all the deaths in the Pacific theatre from June on never really happened?? The cemeteries are empty?

Of course they're not empty, which is a terrible tragedy. They were needless deaths since the enemy had already admitted defeat.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

Lemmy Lemmy:

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

Right, because they got nuked. That was the point of using "the bomb", to force an unconditional surrender without invading.

You're not following along.

And you obviously quit reading after that sentence.

[Regina]

If the cemeteteries aren't empty then the war was still on.