[uwish]

BeaverFever BeaverFever:

peck420 peck420:

Well, since I am no good at linking to the chart I want, you get the whole dataset :

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/facts-faits/index-eng.htm

andyt, my reference to out dated data was in regards to BeaverFever's 1996 image.

The figures are not dissimilar...I guess some things don't change much over time. Given that gun ownership is largely a cultural issue, I'm not surprised.

the real issue is the Canadian government estimated there were 12 million guns in Canada pre C-68. When the registry was introduced only 7 million were in the system. So do you think the other 5 million were??? lost? stolen???

how about they were never registered. There are millions of Canadians with unregistered guns who also never got licensed that still have firearms in there possession.

[Zipperfish]

I bought a weighty tome while I as here by Stephen Pinker called "The Better Angels of our Nature." In this book, Pinker goes dilgently about proving that crimme has actual been going down steadily, njot just in the scale of years, but also on the scale of decades and centuries. Not just crime, but violence in general.

I made it about ten pages in then fell asleep.

[BeaverFever]

$1:

the real issue is the Canadian government estimated there were 12 million guns in Canada pre C-68. When the registry was introduced only 7 million were in the system. So do you think the other 5 million were??? lost? stolen???

How about the 12 million figure was based on an estimate since the data didn't yet exist and then further padded to help sell a controversial law to the public?

I'm sure there are Canadians with unregistered firearms but I doubt "millions".

[uwish]

those numbers were Liberal numbers not conservative, they quoted it when they introduced C-68, the disaster that is the firearms act.

[BeaverFever]

...so? I imagine the Liberals would want to exaggerate the number of guns that could fall into the hands of criminals in order to demonstrate the 'need' for the act.

[Zipperfish]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

It's good to see that the Conservatives get tough on crime attitude is finally showing results.

Thanks Stephan Harper.


Oh sorry, I forgot that only Liberals in Canada have all the answer about stopping crime and it should involve the legalization of all drugs, giving free drugs to addicts, giving free alcohol to alcoholics, making all gangbangers respectable businessmen who grow marijuana or manufacture drugs for the Government and closing all prisons since everyone knows criminals are just misguided individuals who've been oppressed by all us evil Conservatives and our backward ideas of keeping our communities and families safe.

Oh my god--the conservatvies have been in power for several years now. Can we expect teh Cons to stop whining about how hard done by they are any time soon?

[ShepherdsDog]

Right after the Libs implement their national daycare program.

[meagan]

I just saw a herd of pigs flying over Vancouver! Can you beleive it?

[raydan]

meagan meagan:

I just saw a herd of pigs flying over Vancouver! Can you beleive it?

A drift, drove, litter (young), sounder (of swine), team, passel (of hogs), singular (refers to a group of boars)... no herd. Although if they were flying, I might call them a gaggle.

[ShepherdsDog]

A convention or caucus of swine might be a better way to address them.

[BeaverFever]

Freakinoldguy Freakinoldguy:

It's good to see that the Conservatives get tough on crime attitude is finally showing results.

Thanks Stephan Harper.


Oh sorry, I forgot that only Liberals in Canada have all the answer about stopping crime and it should involve the legalization of all drugs, giving free drugs to addicts, giving free alcohol to alcoholics, making all gangbangers respectable businessmen who grow marijuana or manufacture drugs for the Government and closing all prisons since everyone knows criminals are just misguided individuals who've been oppressed by all us evil Conservatives and our backward ideas of keeping our communities and families safe.

Yeah, what's even more amazing is the Harper's "results" are somehow retroactive for the past 40 years, even though Conservatives only formed government in 14 of them. Harper must have a time-travel machine.

[Freakinoldguy]

It's fascinating to watch people argue the fact that crime rates are falling because of thier sides policies, views or plans.

It's been pointed out numerous times that the Conservatives tough on Crime bill hasn't passed so, given those facts and the fact that the crime rate is dropping there is no need to follow through with the crime bill, build more prisons, and pass mandatory sentencing.

Well if that theory is correct then I'd like to put another supposition forward. Since the crime rate is dropping there is no need to follow through with even more of the lefts proposed plans to decriminalize or legalize marijuana, expand the needle exchanges, give drugs to addicts and alcohol to alcoholics, have reduced native jail time because of their race, and use restorative justice in lieu of jail time to punish criminals.

And. the point i'm trying to is that neither side in the debate has the right to claim they're the the reason for a falling crime rate since neither side can unequivocally show proof that their policies are the difference maker.

[andyt]

If you decrim/legalize, ipso facto the crime rate will drop because you've just eliminated a crime. Needle exchanges, supplied drugs/alcohol are about increasing health, not decreasing crime. Reduced sentences for Natives are already being given - never really heard that it's supposed to reduce crime tho.

But E for effort.

[BeaverFever]

Restorative Justice, in its many different forms, has been practiced in Canada since 1974, so I think it rightly deserves some credit. It should be noted that the early experiments in Restorative Justice in Canada were initiated by individuals embracing a Christian world view and the Restorative Justice movement has been encouraged and fostered by individuals and groups who identify themselves with this religious perspective. The first 2 persons to receive "Restorative Justice" sentence were two youths convicted of 22 counts of serious vanadlism in Elmira, Ontario. According to the Department of Justice study, "Restorative justice programs, on average, yielded reductions in recidivism compared to non-restorative approaches to criminal behaviour. In fact, compared to the comparison/control groups that did not participate in a restorative justice program, offenders in the treatment groups were significantly more successful during the follow-up periods."

The other itmes you refer to (albeit in exaggerated and hyperbolic fashion) are not just for crime reduction purposes. Rehabilitation of drug addicts and alcoholics, for example, is primarily a social issue, not a crime prevention issue. Given the absolute failure of 'crime and punishment' tactics, I think we should open to other options. The "giving drugs/alcohol to addicts" program you mention illustrates your ignorance of the issue. Those projects are not sp different than methadone clinics or for that matter prescription drug solutions to addictions. In this case, the substance used to gradually "taper off" the patient's addition is the actual item they are addicted to, not an inadequate artificial substitute, and the drug is administered and monitored by a medical professional. The science so far seems suggest it works better than other alternatives.

Needle Exchanges are not crime-related initiatives at all. At the forefront, they exist to curb the spread of AIDS and other diseases that are spread to the broader community through shared and discarded dirty needles. Better to have a junkie turn in his dirty needles to a clinic than leave them in the park for little Johnny to step on. The clinics also serve a secondary purpose as a 'gateway' to rehab programs and the all the evidence so far suggests they work.

[Curtman]

Removing billions of dollars in revenue every year from organized crime would be helpful. If the GOMC can't understand that, they are truly clueless about reducing crime.