[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Not native to the area doesn't mean introduced?

I'm with you here. More likely they hitched a ride into the area than anything else.

[DrCaleb]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

andyt andyt:

Not native to the area doesn't mean introduced?

I'm with you here. More likely they hitched a ride into the area than anything else.

The article first says they don't know what they are. How can it be determined if they were introduced, if they don't know what they are?

The article also says "or it could be a whole new species", in which case they are not introduced. Did reading comprehension suddenly take a vacation for the summer?

[andyt]

The spiders appeared about a month ago. Do you really think speciation works that fast, where in one month we go from no poisonous spiders to swarms of them?

If this was a mutation as you suggest, then we could expect the scientists to say something like "this looks like the common hurgy gury spider, except it has all of a sudden become highly venomous and agressive."

Actually the article is wrong, almost all spiders are venomous. Many don't have long enough chelicera to penetrate our skin, and many don't have venom that is sufficiently potent to harm us.

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

The spiders appeared about a month ago. Do you really think speciation works that fast, where in one month we go from no poisonous spiders to swarms of them?

I suppose if you believe in the sort of evolution that takes place in leaps, then yes. I forget the exact term for that theory.

But I also find it highly unlikely to have occured spontaneously.

I mean, an iguana turning into a 150 meter tall lizard due to the Fukushima accident I can understand, but killer spiders just popping up? Yeah, that's a stretch.



Yep, that's what happens when you dick around with nuclear power.

[andyt]

Punctuated equilibrium. I don't think even under that theory you get a totally different looking species in a matter of months.

Wiki says the process is called cladogensis, and an example is Hawaii where stray organisms travelled across the ocean to enter new niches in Hawaii. So they were originally an invasive species that changed to fill local niches. That latter change is still a slow process in human terms, just rapid in geological terms. Maybe what's happening here.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

If this was a mutation as you suggest, then we could expect the scientists to say something like "this looks like the common hurgy gury spider, except it has all of a sudden become highly venomous and agressive."

Firstly, I didn't suggest anything. It was the article. and as to your suggestion:

andyt andyt:

$1:

They say it could be a tarantula, a black wishbone or even a funnel-web spider -- or it could be a whole new species.
One thing they agree on is that it is not native to the area as there is no record of venomous spiders in Assam. The black wishbone and funnel-web are native to Australia.

THEY DID SAY THAT!

Reading comprehension: The other white meat.

[andyt]

They sure didn't say what I said. They didn't mention mutation at all, you did. As I said, if it was a viable mutation, you would expect the spider to look much like the species it mutated from, except that this one is venomous and aggressive. There's no way you're going to mutate a whole new organism that's so different from the parent species that nobody recognizes it.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

They sure didn't say what I said. They didn't mention mutation at all, you did. As I said, if it was a viable mutation, you would expect the spider to look much like the species it mutated from, except that this one is venomous and aggressive. There's no way you're going to mutate a whole new organism that's so different from the parent species that nobody recognizes it.

You might want to look up 'mutation'.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/ ... -knew.html

The other problem is of course, not every species has been cataloged. It might be natural and normal, just never before encountered.

[andyt]

That latter is a good point.

As to the first, is it your contention that mutation can produce a completely different organism in every way from the parent? If so, it's you that wants to look up mutation. Most mutations that result in a viable offspring are very small changes. I can see a mutation that changes normally very weak venom into a very lethal one. This could result in speciation as the spiders with the lethal toxins come of occupy an different niche. They're still going to look very much like the parent species for many generations tho. Most radical mutations result in offspring that is not viable.

[DrCaleb]

andyt andyt:

As to the first, is it your contention that. . .

You know me better than this Andy. If you have to ask that question, the answer is "no". I say what I mean to say.

As to your question, yes Mutations can be virtually identical and small steps from the parents - but I'm thinking 'hybrid' more than mutation. Those can be radically different. Like a horse + donkey = mule.

[BartSimpson]

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm thinking 'hybrid' more than mutation. Those can be radically different. Like a horse + donkey = mule.

I'm thinking chicken/spider so we get a bird with eight drumsticks.

[PublicAnimalNo9]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm thinking 'hybrid' more than mutation. Those can be radically different. Like a horse + donkey = mule.

I'm thinking chicken/spider so we get a bird with eight drumsticks.

S'matter, the chickens KFC serves aren't mutated enough for ya?

[DrCaleb]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm thinking 'hybrid' more than mutation. Those can be radically different. Like a horse + donkey = mule.

I'm thinking chicken/spider so we get a bird with eight drumsticks.

S'matter, the chickens KFC serves aren't mutated enough for ya?

Yea, but the eggs would unravel and get stuck in your hair. And imagine a chicken on a web in the corner of your room? Creepier than that robotic clown with a random twitch I have.

[BartSimpson]

PublicAnimalNo9 PublicAnimalNo9:

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm thinking 'hybrid' more than mutation. Those can be radically different. Like a horse + donkey = mule.

I'm thinking chicken/spider so we get a bird with eight drumsticks.

S'matter, the chickens KFC serves aren't mutated enough for ya?

Nope.

[PluggyRug]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

DrCaleb DrCaleb:

I'm thinking 'hybrid' more than mutation. Those can be radically different. Like a horse + donkey = mule.

I'm thinking chicken/spider so we get a bird with eight drumsticks.

Or a spider that clucks.

Can you imagine waking up in the morning with a gazillion spiders crowing.