[andyt]

Like the Afghanis with their boy Thursdays? I guess there's a reason why denial is a river in Egypt.

I'm with you on NAMBLA Bart - they're a pedophile organization. I don't understand your hatred of gays in general tho, most of them just want to live life in the same way as straights do, just with different dirty bits involved.

[Lemmy]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

$1:

those individuals who are most hostile toward gays and hold strong anti-gay views may themselves have same-sex desires, albeit undercover ones.

This ought to go over well with the Muslims.

Just for clarity, Bart, are you coming out gay or Muslim...or both!

[BartSimpson]

andyt andyt:

Like the Afghanis with their boy Thursdays? I guess there's a reason why denial is a river in Egypt.

I'm with you on NAMBLA Bart - they're a pedophile organization. I don't understand your hatred of gays in general tho, most of them just want to live life in the same way as straights do, just with different dirty bits involved.

To be clear, I do not 'hate' gays anymore than I'd hate someone with autism or anything else. They are what they are. What I do not care for are people telling me to accept as 'normal' something that they themselves find off-putting or reprehensible.

Case in point is the topic of this thread and that's a group of people aiming their own hatreds at people who do not adhere to the pro-gay party line and they're using this study to malign anti-gay agenda people as gay.

See, I've run into this kind of thing before. Supposed gay tolerant folks who want me to say that homosexuality is normal meanwhile they wield threatened accusations of latent homosexual tendencies as a weapon.

If being gay is so normal then why do these folks view the threatened accusation of such as a weapon?

They accuse others of homophobia yet here they are expressing it themselves.

[andyt]

It's normal, been with us for ever. It's normal the way left handedness is normal, about the same percentage, and we've come a long way in how we treat southpaws as well. You can say what you like. Personally, I've always stood up for gays being able to live their life, even in high school, when that was not popular. OTOH, a friend once asked me if I didn't think that gay sex was disgusting, and I had to agree with him - I'm repulsed by it. Just as Dan Savage has said he's repulsed by vaginal sex. (He may not have worded it that strongly, but it comes thru). Some of the gay advocacy stuff is over the top, because that's how advocacy works. It's true for lots of causes I agree with. And I'll speak out against that over the top stuff. (Like ACT UP throwing condoms around in catholic churches.) But mostly I think we should just live and let live. There isn't really any reason to keep harping about the whole deal, just let people do what they want.

[Brenda]

andyt andyt:

It's normal, been with us for ever. It's normal the way left handedness is normal, about the same percentage, and we've come a long way in how we treat southpaws as well. You can say what you like. Personally, I've always stood up for gays being able to live their life, even in high school, when that was not popular. OTOH, a friend once asked me if I didn't think that gay sex was disgusting, and I had to agree with him - I'm repulsed by it. Just as Dan Savage has said he's repulsed by vaginal sex. (He may not have worded it that strongly, but it comes thru). Some of the gay advocacy stuff is over the top, because that's how advocacy works. It's true for lots of causes I agree with. And I'll speak out against that over the top stuff. (Like ACT UP throwing condoms around in catholic churches.) But mostly I think we should just live and let live. There isn't really any reason to keep harping about the whole deal, just let people do what they want.

I'd rep you if I could.

[andyt]

It's the thought that counts.

[raydan]

What's normal, Bart?

What religion tells us, or what the majority go for?

Maybe "normal" is anything that can be found between two determined sets of parameters.
The problem here is... Who gets to set those parameters?

I guess it's a personal thing... one person's normal is another person's "icky".

[coaster_dot]

From a gay perspective, straight people have the best luxury of living their personal life. Think about it, straight marriage is the norm. If you are a guy, and you see a girl you want to talk to it is normal for you to do so. If you happen to go out together, it is normal for you to to have a nice dinner together, hand holds on a walk, maybe kiss in a more private setting and no one will really think twice. And even further back to high school, taking a girl out to the dance and having her meet you parents for dinner is all normal. Now take two steps forward to marriage and life after marriage. A man and a women are in love, they get married, they invite their family, they have a kid, and everything is just...normal.

But if you are gay, none of these things are considered very normal in a typical society. But whats really the difference? I mean, a guy likes guys...until you come out you are living an unnatural life. This is something only a gay person can understand. The feeling of missing out some important life events growing up just because they are afraid of the reactions from those around them. Even when in an open minded community there are still limits that straight people don't even think twice about.

The reason why gay people have started to be more outgoing with there actions is because they have lived their whole life being closeted, confused, and depressed and once they come and be themselves they don't want to hear people say that they are not normal or that they should be excluded from certain rights or benefits. Gay people cannot change their orientation, so why should they be excluded from the same respect as other straight people, especially when there are other gay people to meet and live a happy life with.

One of my biggest pet peeves is when people say "why do they have gay pride fest, straight people don't have straight pride fest". What they don't realize is that being straight is in it's self a luxury as it's considered the norm. This is always why some gay people feel the need to come out and say they are gay during an introduction with someone new...I sometimes do this myself. It is common to assume someone is straight, and just as a straight person would be offended of being called gay, a gay person can feel just as offended if assumed straight.

It should be normal and accepted, but it isn't. So until it is, gay people are going to continue to be outgoing about the issue. I get pissed off about homophobic people too, although I don't usually call them out on it. And until you are gay, you won't fully understand the reason why gay people like to accuse extreme homophobics of being gay themselves...because honestly theres a good chance it's true.

Also, gay people are THE BEST at spotting out other gay people. There are certain actions that one does in the closeted stage that you will only pick up on if you did them yourself. While I never call people out, in my mind I feel really bad for other people who are still afraid to come out. This is why gay people like to hangout at gay bars or gay events, they like to feel accepted by people just like them.

/rant

[Brenda]

I feel that the gay pride parades are more a drag queen contest than a gay PRIDE parade. Not every drag queen is gay, and not every gay likes to be a drag queen.
I personally HATE gay pride parades, for that reason only.
They don't do anything for the acceptance of gay people, they make a caricature out of gay people. A caricature imo, you would not want.

[BartSimpson]

raydan raydan:

What's normal, Bart?

Let's say it is in the eye of the beholder. That being the case why would 'gay' be used as a weapon or an accusation by people whom you'd think would perceive it as being normal?

[raydan]

Sorry Bart, but I was just teasing and not using it as a weapon, but I was trying to get a reaction.
Would it be better if I just accused you of not being normal?

[Brenda]

BartSimpson BartSimpson:

raydan raydan:

What's normal, Bart?

Let's say it is in the eye of the beholder. That being the case why would 'gay' be used as a weapon or an accusation by people whom you'd think would perceive it as being normal?

Why would anyone feel "attacked" by being called "gay", for whatever fucked up reason? Why would anyone see it as an attack anyway?
I have been called gay before, I have been hit on by lesbians. Whatever floats their boat. It does not float mine, so, thanks, but no thanks. I'm still flattered tho

[raydan]

Gaydar seems to pick me up too, Brenda.
Damn frustrating, because I'd be getting way more action if I WAS gay.

[coaster_dot]

I still get more attention from the females then I do the males. And I'm not making this up, but since I started to new job I have had 4 office women start hitting on me. All very attractive, professional, and over 30. It's like "uhh...well yes I am single, but can we just hangout as friends"? I am not fully out at the new job yet, but I am going to have to soon so I don't make any of the women feel bad or stupid (when I came out to girls who liked me they always said they felt stupid). And because of the whole society/normal thing, a guy, who is going to be assumed to be straight, cannot just go out and have drinks with a girl just as friends...it does not work this way as much as you want to think it can.

And Brenda thanks for bringing that up. Being called gay is still considered an "attack" that pisses people off. THIS is why gay protests and attention movements are as strong as they are today.

[2Cdo]

Brenda Brenda:

I feel that the gay pride parades are more a drag queen contest than a gay PRIDE parade. Not every drag queen is gay, and not every gay likes to be a drag queen.
I personally HATE gay pride parades, for that reason only.
They don't do anything for the acceptance of gay people, they make a caricature out of gay people. A caricature imo, you would not want.

I see we agree on something.

I would say that gay pride parades, based on SOME actions during the parade, are doing harm to their cause.